Wednesday, November 10, 2010
Ask an Ismaili
Welcome to the first edition of "Ask an Ismaili". Here is where you can post your questions about Ismailism. Any Ismaili is welcome to respond to the questions.
Monday, November 8, 2010
legitimacy of violence: ismaili discussion
Ali the Ismaili writes:
Ali said...
Collaboraters
(Interpretation of the verse)
The recompense of those who fight God and His messenger, and seek to make corruption in the land, is that they will be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off on alternate sides or that they be banished from the land; that is a disgrace for them in this world and in the Hereafter they will have a great retribution. Except for those who repent before you overpower them, then know that God is Forgiving, Merciful.” (Quran 5:33-34)
Police working for Occupation forces
(Interpretation of the Verse)
You will find others who want to be safe amongst you and safe amongst their own people. Every time they are returned to the test, they fall back in it. If they do not withdraw from you, and offer you peace, and restrain their hands, then you shall take them and kill them where you find them. For these We have given you a clear authority.” (Quran 4:91)
so if they dont offer peace,we must kill them wherever we find them.if they dont Restrain from what theyre doing(i.e helping the occupation forces in anyway,translatros,cooks and cleaners,radio workers,news casts and governers)We must Kill them.
What about people who sell clothes to the occupation forces? or those who are theyre doctors,or those who give moral support to them?
(interpretation of the Verse)
When you were on the near side, and they were on the far side, then the supply line became directly beneath you. And had you planned for this meeting, you would have disagreed on its timing, but God was to enforce a command that was already done. So that He would destroy those to be destroyed with proof, and to let those who will live be alive with proof. God is Hearer, Knowledgeable.” (Quran 8:42)
Prisoners of War:
(Interpretation of the Verses)
“And it was not for any prophet to take prisoners unless it was in battle. You desire the materials of this world, while God wants the Hereafter for you. God is Noble, Wise.” (Quran 8:67)
“O prophet, say to those prisoners whom you hold: “If God finds in your hearts any good, He will grant you better than what He took from you, and He will forgive you. God is Forgiving, Merciful.” (Quran 8:70)
“So, if you encounter those who have rejected, then strike their flanks until you overcome them, then bind them securely. You may either set them free or ransom them, until the war ends. And had God willed, He alone could have beaten them, but He thus tests you by one another. As for those who get killed in the cause of God, He will never let their deeds be put to waste.” (Quran 47:4)
October 20, 2010 7:56 AM
Ali said...
so they are to Be Treated Kindly,and they may not be harmed except ransomed or set free.
What About the UN?
(Interpretation of the Verse)
“And if they are told: ‘Do not make evil in the land,’ they Say: ‘But we are the reformers!’ No, they are the evildoers, but they do not perceive.” (Quran 2:11-12)
they aere a legitimate target,and they assisted the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq,the occupation of sham,and the killing of Muqawamma soldiers in Lebanon.
What about Mutilating Dead Bodies?
(Interpretation of The Verse)
"So God sent forth a raven to scratch the land and show him how to deal with the wickedness inflicted upon his brother. He said: “O my, am I not able to be like this raven and deal with the wickedness inflicted upon my brother!” So he became of those who regretted." (Quran 5:31)
It is Impermissable to Mutilate dead bodies at All Tiems.
What About Peacefull protests and Negotations?
(Interpretation of the Verse)
God already knows which of you are the hinderers, and those who say to their brothers: ‘Come and stay with us.’ Rarely do they mobilize for battle. They are miserable towards you. Then, when fear comes, you see their eyes rolling, as if death had already come to them. But once the fear is gone, they lash-out at you with sharp tongues. They are miserable towards doing any good. These have not believed, so God nullifies their works. This is easy for God to do.” (Quran 33:18-19)
These people who call for PEacefull protests are Hypocrites and Are in fact Disbeleivers in Allah's Message.they have denied allah being able to Take Ibrahim from the Fire,and The Ahl Al-Kahf being asleep for 300 years int heri cave from the seclusion of people,they have denied the Signs of Isa(a.s)And Muhammad(a.s),they have denied the Sign of Musa(a.s) against Firawn(a.s)and the sign of Yusuf(a.s) against The Prisoners,when they say the Army of the DEvil is more powerfull then the musklimjs,and we cannot defeat them.
For allah Says(Interpretation of The Verse)
“It was not you who killed them, but it was God who killed them. And it was not you who launched when you did, but it was God who launched. And so that the believers would be tested well by God. God is Hearer, Knowledgeable.’” (Quran 8:17)
Also Allah Says:
(Interpretation of the Verses)
If God grants you victory then none can defeat you, and if He abandons you then who can grant you victory after Him? And towards God the believers should put their trust.” (Quran 3:160)
“O you who believe, if you support God, He will support you, and make your foothold firm.” (Quran 47:7)
Also allah has Said about the Party of Allah(Al-HizbAllah)
(Interpretation of the Verse)
Waman yatawalla Allaha warasoolahu waallatheena amanoo fa-inna hizba Allahi humu alghaliboona
for, all who ally themselves with God and His Apostle and those who have attained to faith - behold, it is they, the partisans of God, who shall be victorious!
(Quran 5:56)
October 20, 2010 7:57 AM
Ali said...
Allah Says:
(Interpretation of the Verses)
“O you who believe, what is wrong with you when you are told: “March forth in the cause of God,” you become heavy on Earth. Have you become content with this worldly life over the Hereafter? The enjoyment of this worldly life compared to the Hereafter is nothing.” (Quran 9:38)
“March forth in light gear or heavy gear, and strive with your money and lives in the cause of God. That is best if you knew.” (Quran 9:41)
So we Are to March forth in Jihad,and we cannot abandon jihad without a Valid shar'i Excuse.
What about Leaders(Presidents,prime ministers)?
(Interpretation of the Verse)
And if they break their oaths after making them, and they denounce the authority of your system; then you may kill the chiefs of rejection. Their oaths are nothing to them, perhaps they will then cease.” (Quran 9:12)
what about Striking Enemy formations :
(Interpretation of the Verse)
So, if you encounter those who have rejected, then strike their formations until you overcome them, then bind them securely. You may either set them free or ransom them, until the war ends. And had God willed, He alone could have beaten them, but He thus tests you by one another. As for those who get killed in the cause of God, He will never let their deeds be put to waste.” (Quran 47:4)
The Number of Fighters do not Matter
(Interpretation of the Verse)
“God had granted you victory at Badr while you had been the lesser, so revere God that you may be thankful. When you said to the believers: “Is it not enough for you that God would supply you with three thousand of the Angels sent down?” Indeed, if you are patient and are righteous and they come and attack you, He will supply you with five thousand of the Angels battle trained.” (Quran 3:124-125)
Stay Firm on the Battle field in jihad:
(Interpretation of the Verses)
“O you who believe; when you encounter those who have rejected on the battlefield, then do not flee from them. And whoever on that day flees from them; unless it is part of the battle strategy or if he is retreating back to his group; then he has drawn God’s wrath upon him, and his abode will be Hell. What a miserable destiny.” (Quran 8:15-16)
“O you who believe, when you meet a force, stand firm and mention God excessively, that you may succeed.” (Quran 8:45)
Atatck the Bases of Traitors(this includes anybody who ccoperates with the occdupying force including morally)
(Interpretation of the Verse)
And if you are being betrayed by a people, then you shall likewise move against them. God does not like the betrayers.” (Quran 8:58)
Gather the muslims to Fight the enemy of allah(SWT)and his Emmissary(SAAS)
(Interpretation of the Verse)
“O prophet, urge the believers to fight. If there are twenty of you who are patient, they will defeat two hundred. And if there are one hundred of you, they will defeat one thousand from amongst those who reject; that is because they are a people who do not comprehend.” (Quran 8:65)
Eshtablish the rule of Islam.
(Interpretation of the Verses)
“…And whoever does not judge by what God has sent down, then these are the rejecters.” (Quran 5:44)
“…And whoever does not judge by what God has sent down, then these are the wicked.” (Quran 5:45)
“…And whoever does not judge by what God has sent down, then these are the vile ones.” (Quran 5:47)
October 20, 2010 8:06 AM
Ali the Ismaili writes:
the Traditions of Ahl Ul-Bayt(a.s)Are Unanimouis in the Cutting of the The Theifs Hand.
in Fact the Twelvers Say its only 4 Fingers of the right hand,i dont know You Guys Stance on it.
There is a Famouis Hadith Where Ali(a.s)Cut off the Hand of the Criminal,and the criminal was Happy Ali did it to him,and not somebody else.
then Ali put his hand back,because of his Love for the Imams(a.s).
Secondly Whipping the Adulterer is a Consensus of the Ahl ul-Bayt(Peace be upon them).
Teh Question Arises isnt t Cruel to cutm of somebodies hand?
Well Jafar Bin Muhammad asnwered this by Saying :his breaching of his Trustworthiness lowered the Value of his Hand.
Secondly is the Hands of a Few Criminals Worth the Safety of and entire Society?
we all saw what happened in the Blackouts of the United states and Australia.
people couldnt even go outside.
and the Cutting of the hand Helps the Criminal,it saves him from Punishment in the Hereafter for Stealing,and lets him make something good of his life.
is the Whipping of a Few Adulterers worth the stability of the entire people?
i think so.
i think that the ummah is more important than a few adulterers.
October 20, 2010 7:23 AM
Ali said...
Also Tell me if i am mistaken,but arent Zaydis really Violent when it comes to Imamate?like Violence is a part of eshtablishing the Imamate?
And Taqiyah Being Void To You,and you msut rise up against a opressive ruler?
and Also the Quran mentions Jihad in the following Terms:
(Interpretation of the Verse)
“And if two parties of believers battle with each other, you shall reconcile them; but if one of them aggresses against the other, then you shall fight the one aggressing until it complies with God's command. Once it complies, then you shall reconcile the two groups with justice, and be equitable; for God loves those who are equitable. The believers are brothers; so reconcile between your brothers, and be aware of God, that you may receive mercy.” (Quran 49:9-10)
so we should Reconcile people first,then if that doesnt work fight.
All Nations Should Have Weapons:
(Interpretationm Of the Verse)
And muster for them all that you can of might, and from the steeds of war, that you may instil fear with it towards God’s enemy and your enemy, and others beside them whom you do not know but God knows them. And whatever you spend in the cause of God will be returned to you, and you will not be wronged.” (Quran 8:60)
Shari'a Law must be Impelented in all circumstances:
(Interpetation of The Verse)
“And judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow their wishes, and beware lest they divert you away from some of what God has sent down to you. If they turn away, then know that God wants to inflict them with some of their sins; and most of the people are corrupt. Is it the judgment of the days of ignorance that they seek? Who is better than God as a judge for a people that comprehend? (Quran 5:49-50)
Killing the Invadiung Froces is Obligatory,this includes their cooks,Hospitals,and all froms of asupport including cleaners.
(Interpreatation of the Verse)
And fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress, God does not like the aggressors. And kill them wherever you find them, and expel them from where they expelled you, and know that persecution is worse than being killed. And do not fight them at the restricted Temple unless they fight you in it; if they fight you then kill them, thus is the reward of the disbelievers.” (Quran 2:190-191)
October 20, 2010 7:35 AM
Ali said...
Collaboraters
(Interpretation of the verse)
The recompense of those who fight God and His messenger, and seek to make corruption in the land, is that they will be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off on alternate sides or that they be banished from the land; that is a disgrace for them in this world and in the Hereafter they will have a great retribution. Except for those who repent before you overpower them, then know that God is Forgiving, Merciful.” (Quran 5:33-34)
Police working for Occupation forces
(Interpretation of the Verse)
You will find others who want to be safe amongst you and safe amongst their own people. Every time they are returned to the test, they fall back in it. If they do not withdraw from you, and offer you peace, and restrain their hands, then you shall take them and kill them where you find them. For these We have given you a clear authority.” (Quran 4:91)
so if they dont offer peace,we must kill them wherever we find them.if they dont Restrain from what theyre doing(i.e helping the occupation forces in anyway,translatros,cooks and cleaners,radio workers,news casts and governers)We must Kill them.
What about people who sell clothes to the occupation forces? or those who are theyre doctors,or those who give moral support to them?
(interpretation of the Verse)
When you were on the near side, and they were on the far side, then the supply line became directly beneath you. And had you planned for this meeting, you would have disagreed on its timing, but God was to enforce a command that was already done. So that He would destroy those to be destroyed with proof, and to let those who will live be alive with proof. God is Hearer, Knowledgeable.” (Quran 8:42)
Prisoners of War:
(Interpretation of the Verses)
“And it was not for any prophet to take prisoners unless it was in battle. You desire the materials of this world, while God wants the Hereafter for you. God is Noble, Wise.” (Quran 8:67)
“O prophet, say to those prisoners whom you hold: “If God finds in your hearts any good, He will grant you better than what He took from you, and He will forgive you. God is Forgiving, Merciful.” (Quran 8:70)
“So, if you encounter those who have rejected, then strike their flanks until you overcome them, then bind them securely. You may either set them free or ransom them, until the war ends. And had God willed, He alone could have beaten them, but He thus tests you by one another. As for those who get killed in the cause of God, He will never let their deeds be put to waste.” (Quran 47:4)
October 20, 2010 7:56 AM
Ali said...
so they are to Be Treated Kindly,and they may not be harmed except ransomed or set free.
What About the UN?
(Interpretation of the Verse)
“And if they are told: ‘Do not make evil in the land,’ they Say: ‘But we are the reformers!’ No, they are the evildoers, but they do not perceive.” (Quran 2:11-12)
they aere a legitimate target,and they assisted the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq,the occupation of sham,and the killing of Muqawamma soldiers in Lebanon.
What about Mutilating Dead Bodies?
(Interpretation of The Verse)
"So God sent forth a raven to scratch the land and show him how to deal with the wickedness inflicted upon his brother. He said: “O my, am I not able to be like this raven and deal with the wickedness inflicted upon my brother!” So he became of those who regretted." (Quran 5:31)
It is Impermissable to Mutilate dead bodies at All Tiems.
What About Peacefull protests and Negotations?
(Interpretation of the Verse)
God already knows which of you are the hinderers, and those who say to their brothers: ‘Come and stay with us.’ Rarely do they mobilize for battle. They are miserable towards you. Then, when fear comes, you see their eyes rolling, as if death had already come to them. But once the fear is gone, they lash-out at you with sharp tongues. They are miserable towards doing any good. These have not believed, so God nullifies their works. This is easy for God to do.” (Quran 33:18-19)
These people who call for PEacefull protests are Hypocrites and Are in fact Disbeleivers in Allah's Message.they have denied allah being able to Take Ibrahim from the Fire,and The Ahl Al-Kahf being asleep for 300 years int heri cave from the seclusion of people,they have denied the Signs of Isa(a.s)And Muhammad(a.s),they have denied the Sign of Musa(a.s) against Firawn(a.s)and the sign of Yusuf(a.s) against The Prisoners,when they say the Army of the DEvil is more powerfull then the musklimjs,and we cannot defeat them.
For allah Says(Interpretation of The Verse)
“It was not you who killed them, but it was God who killed them. And it was not you who launched when you did, but it was God who launched. And so that the believers would be tested well by God. God is Hearer, Knowledgeable.’” (Quran 8:17)
Also Allah Says:
(Interpretation of the Verses)
If God grants you victory then none can defeat you, and if He abandons you then who can grant you victory after Him? And towards God the believers should put their trust.” (Quran 3:160)
“O you who believe, if you support God, He will support you, and make your foothold firm.” (Quran 47:7)
Also allah has Said about the Party of Allah(Al-HizbAllah)
(Interpretation of the Verse)
Waman yatawalla Allaha warasoolahu waallatheena amanoo fa-inna hizba Allahi humu alghaliboona
for, all who ally themselves with God and His Apostle and those who have attained to faith - behold, it is they, the partisans of God, who shall be victorious!
(Quran 5:56)
October 20, 2010 7:57 AM
Ali said...
Allah Says:
(Interpretation of the Verses)
“O you who believe, what is wrong with you when you are told: “March forth in the cause of God,” you become heavy on Earth. Have you become content with this worldly life over the Hereafter? The enjoyment of this worldly life compared to the Hereafter is nothing.” (Quran 9:38)
“March forth in light gear or heavy gear, and strive with your money and lives in the cause of God. That is best if you knew.” (Quran 9:41)
So we Are to March forth in Jihad,and we cannot abandon jihad without a Valid shar'i Excuse.
What about Leaders(Presidents,prime ministers)?
(Interpretation of the Verse)
And if they break their oaths after making them, and they denounce the authority of your system; then you may kill the chiefs of rejection. Their oaths are nothing to them, perhaps they will then cease.” (Quran 9:12)
what about Striking Enemy formations :
(Interpretation of the Verse)
So, if you encounter those who have rejected, then strike their formations until you overcome them, then bind them securely. You may either set them free or ransom them, until the war ends. And had God willed, He alone could have beaten them, but He thus tests you by one another. As for those who get killed in the cause of God, He will never let their deeds be put to waste.” (Quran 47:4)
The Number of Fighters do not Matter
(Interpretation of the Verse)
“God had granted you victory at Badr while you had been the lesser, so revere God that you may be thankful. When you said to the believers: “Is it not enough for you that God would supply you with three thousand of the Angels sent down?” Indeed, if you are patient and are righteous and they come and attack you, He will supply you with five thousand of the Angels battle trained.” (Quran 3:124-125)
Stay Firm on the Battle field in jihad:
(Interpretation of the Verses)
“O you who believe; when you encounter those who have rejected on the battlefield, then do not flee from them. And whoever on that day flees from them; unless it is part of the battle strategy or if he is retreating back to his group; then he has drawn God’s wrath upon him, and his abode will be Hell. What a miserable destiny.” (Quran 8:15-16)
“O you who believe, when you meet a force, stand firm and mention God excessively, that you may succeed.” (Quran 8:45)
Atatck the Bases of Traitors(this includes anybody who ccoperates with the occdupying force including morally)
(Interpretation of the Verse)
And if you are being betrayed by a people, then you shall likewise move against them. God does not like the betrayers.” (Quran 8:58)
Gather the muslims to Fight the enemy of allah(SWT)and his Emmissary(SAAS)
(Interpretation of the Verse)
“O prophet, urge the believers to fight. If there are twenty of you who are patient, they will defeat two hundred. And if there are one hundred of you, they will defeat one thousand from amongst those who reject; that is because they are a people who do not comprehend.” (Quran 8:65)
Eshtablish the rule of Islam.
(Interpretation of the Verses)
“…And whoever does not judge by what God has sent down, then these are the rejecters.” (Quran 5:44)
“…And whoever does not judge by what God has sent down, then these are the wicked.” (Quran 5:45)
“…And whoever does not judge by what God has sent down, then these are the vile ones.” (Quran 5:47)
October 20, 2010 8:06 AM
zaida said...
Dear Readers, I would just like to point out that the person making the above comments is not a Zaidi, therefore we Zaidis do not take responsibility for any of the above comments, which include, if I understand them properly, the idea that it is halal to kill cooks, translators and doctors etc who happen to be on the opposing side in a battle!
I can’t respond to all of Ali’s comments right now, but just to make a start, regarding the verse concerning covering of women’s bodies, I disagree with Ali’s interpretation. See comments section of “Zaidism and Women’s Liberation” (posted on July 27), I will post my response to him there.
About the misleading title of my article, I usually add the word “zaidi” to the titles on this blog so that they will be linked to this blog in Google searches. It is true that my perspective is not always the same as the official Zaidi line, which is well represented here by Imam Rassi Society. I acknowledge that I am on the fringe of Zaidism and pushing its boundaries. So far, the Zaidis are not complaining, so unless you are actually a Zaidi I will ignore your protests about my opinions being outside Zaidism.
October 20, 2010 4:35 PM
zaida said...
To Pro ahlul bait:
I think I already pointed out in my article "The Relationship between Mu'tazilism and Zaidism" (August 25) that, in contrast to the Sunni literalism espoused by, among others Abu Hanifa, Imam Zaid was not a literalist. In that article I compared their contrasting interpretations of "the Hand of Allah". While Abu Hanifa mentioned that he and other "ahlussanna" do not see it figuratively "the way the Mu'tazilah do", (his own words), Imam Zaid listed all the "higher level" meanings of "hand" and said the word is used that way in Arabic poetry. i.e. he made ta'wil. I got this info from the book you sent me, by the way. Therefore i does not seem strange to me that later mu'tazilis did not interpret the "bridge" and the "tank" literally. I do not think their opinions are weird. They had learnt to respond to the Arabic language on a higher level than the literal level, just as Imam Zaid (and other members of ahlul bait) had.
October 20, 2010 4:48 PM
ProAhlulBayt1 said...
To Zaida
As brother IRS pointed out the Zaydis are latest inheritors of knowledge when it comes to the Mutazilla views. In the end, even brother IRS refuted your article. Just because Allah's hand is not taken literally, doesn't mean the punishment of theft shouldn't be implied literally. Also, I've told you that Fiqh e Akbar was compiled by Abu Hanifa's (ra) student Abu Yusuf who was anti mutazilla. If Abu Hanifa (ra) really made such a view the Mutazilla would be the first ones to condemn him. On the contrary, they believe fiqh e akbar isn't his views on theology.
October 20, 2010 6:04 PM
zaida said...
Well if Fiqhul akbar doesn't reflect Abu Hanifa's veiws and he really agreed with Imam Zaid and the Mu'tazilis about ta'wil, somebody had better inform the world's billions of sunni muslims that they have got it wrong. We still don't know if brother IRS is going to refute the views of the Mu'tazilis which you listed above (where did you get that list by the way?) And as far as I'm concerned, if Allah's "hand" can be understood metaphorically, why can't a thief's "hand" be understood as his "ability to steal"? As a mu'tazili, I am allowed to speculate about these things, even if you aren't as a sunni.
October 20, 2010 6:25 PM
zaida said...
….and the advantage of Zaidism is that we can have a living ahlul bait Imam. It is the role of the ahlul bait/ Hashemite Imam to interpret Islam in the appropriate way for his followers in his time and his region. As the Zaidi Imamate in Yemen has been out of operation since 1962, we can only speculate about what a properly elected Zaidi Imam would have say about issues that affect Muslims in 2010. It is interesting to note, however, that a descendant of that most recent Zaidi Imamate, the Hamidaddin Imamate, has made comments above which depart from the traditional Zaidism of his forefathers. I interpret this as a sign that, when a Zaidi Imamate is re-established, it will not be a carbon copy of the 1962 Imamate which was ousted. The fact is, the reason it was ousted in 1962 was that it had become stale and out of touch with modern day reality. Zaidis need to learn from this. Any new Imamate will need a fresh new way of looking at things.
October 20, 2010 7:34 PM
Ali said...
salam alaykum.
how are they ahl ul-bayt?
when ahl ul-bayt has perfectly purified,but hese people love wine,women and dancing?
secondly they promote peace ,if you call peace,discouraging the jihad,and imprisoning the mujahedin in their lands.
if you call peace opressing berbers,and holding 100,000's of political prisoners in compounds,i dont call that peace nor sending military to kill palistinian fighters.
and what is your Obsession with descendancy?you are getting like Iranians,who basically worship the Sayedzadeh and have a obsession with the concept of ''Haramzadeh''''
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJn3ykUDwAM
THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN "HARAM ZADA" AND "WALIDUL ZINA"
looool,
secondly i answered you on http://zaidism.blogspot.com/2010/08/history-of-zaidi-revival-in-saada.html
the rest
did you know these hashemite leaders sent troops to kill other hashemite leaders in Sa'sada read the article i provided in the above post.
also i shall answer you on Khimr Shortly insha'Allah and the misuse of modern adherents to ''''British islam''.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RouGfvhubpY
British Government wants to buy ISLAM!
very funny video.gives some insight.
October 21, 2010 12:10 PM
Ali said...
@ProAhlulBayt1,It is not The Zaydiyah who uphold the Mutazili Spirit but rather the Ibadhi
http://www.angelfire.com/ok5/ibadhiyah/ibadhisunni.html
This gives a list of Ibadhi Vs.Sunni interpretations of the Deen.
they beleive,the angels are higher then messenegrs,and yes they beleive the Sirat is metaphorical.
i have personallly confirmed this from a Ibadhi,as i am active on Omanforums.com
October 21, 2010 12:26 PM
ProAhlulBayt1 said...
There is a hadith hasn't been rejected by any traditional school of thought.
A'isha reported that the Quraish had been anxious about the Makhzumi woman who had committed theft, and said: Who will speak to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) about her? They said: Who dare it, but Usama, the loved one of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him)? So Usama spoke to him. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Do you intercede regarding one of the punishments prescribed by Allah? He then stood up and addressed (people) saying: O people, those who have gone before you were destroyed, because if any one of high rank committed theft amongst them, they spared him; and it anyone of low rank committed theft, they inflicted the prescribed punishment upon him. By Allah, if Fatima, daughter of Muhammad, were to steal, I would have her hand cut off. In the hadith transmitted on the authority of Ibn Rumh (the words are):" Verily those before you perished." (Sahih Muslim)
October 21, 2010 3:21 PM
Ali said...
there is a so -called Fabricated Hadith:''We have returned from the lesser Jihad (battle) to the greater Jihad”,''
The Narrator is Ibrahim ibn abi ablah and he is a Tabi'i not a Sahabi.
Ibn Taymiyyah said in Al-Furqan PP. 44-45: “This hadith has no sources and nobody whomsoever in the field of Islamic knowledge has narrated it. Jihad against the disbelivers is the most noble of actions and moreover it is the most important action for the mankind.”
Al-Khateeb al-Baghdadi reports it is daeef (weak) due to the narrator Khalaf bin Muhammad bin Ismail Al-Khiyam. Al-Haakim says, “His hadeeths are unreliable”. Abu Ya’la Al-Khalili says, “He often adulterates, is very weak and narrates unknown hadith.” (Mashari-ul-Ashwaq, Ibn Nuhas 1/31).
There is also the narrator Yahya bin Al-Ula who is a known liar and forgerer of hadith (Ahmad). Amru bin Ali, An-Nasai and Ad-Daraqutni state, “His hadith are renounced.” Ibn Adi states, “His hadith are false.” (Tahzeeb-ut-Tahzeeb 11/261-262)
Ibn Hajar said, “He was accused of forging hadith.” (At-Taghrib). Adh-dhahabi said, “Abu Hatim said that he is not a strong narrator, Ibn Ma’een classified him as weak and Ad-Daraqutni said that he is to be neglected.”
October 22, 2010 10:46 AM
Ali said...
Furthermore allah Says About Jihad:
لاَ يَسْتَوِي الْقَاعِدُونَ مِنَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ غَيْرُ أُوْلِي الضَّرَرِ وَالْمُجَاهِدُونَ فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ بِأَمْوَالِهِمْ وَأَنفُسِهِمْ فَضَّلَ اللَّهُ الْمُجَاهِدِينَ بِأَمْوَالِهِمْ وَأَنفُسِهِمْ عَلَى الْقَاعِدِينَ دَرَجَة ً وَكُلاّ ً وَعَدَ اللَّهُ الْحُسْنَى وَفَضَّلَ اللَّهُ الْمُجَاهِدِينَ عَلَى الْقَاعِدِينَ أَجْراً عَظِيما
Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home). Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward; Degrees of (higher) grades from Him, and Forgiveness and Mercy. And Allah is Ever Oft*Forgiving, Most Merciful.”(Quran 4:95)
Secondly,It is Absolute Conrqadiction in your Interpretation to Say the Yad in this case means Power when,You say Isa was Raised(Rafa'a) to then right hand of allah!and you say Isa(a.s)was ''Raised''(Rafa'a)to allah!When Rafa'a is used many times in the quran and it all means rasing in a Metaphorical way.but Wahb ibn Munnabih and Kab al-Ahbar Two Sana'ani former Jews,took from the books of Ahl ul-Kitab,and now you beleive in Isa(a.s)Coming back.
I have Personally confirmed this from a Zaydi,who Beleived that Isa(a.s)Will come back.
(Frankly,only Isma'ilis,Qadianis,and Quran only beleive Isa(a.s) is Dead)
October 22, 2010 10:54 AM
Ali said...
'''''''Many people are turning away from religion because they perceive that it is to blame for much of the violence in the world.''
'يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا مَنْ يَرْتَدَّ مِنْكُمْ عَنْ دِينِه ِِ فَسَوْفَ يَأْتِي اللَّهُ بِقَوْم ٍ يُحِبُّهُمْ وَيُحِبُّونَهُ~ُ أَذِلَّةٍ عَلَى الْمُؤْمِنِينَ أَعِزَّةٍ عَلَى الْكَافِرِينَ يُجَاهِدُونَ فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ وَلاَ يَخَافُونَ لَوْمَةَ لاَئِم ٍ ذَلِكَ فَضْلُ اللَّهِ يُؤْتِيه ِِ مَنْ يَشَاءُ وَاللَّهُ وَاسِعٌ عَلِيم
O you who believe! Whoever from among you turns back from his religion (Islām), Allāh will bring a people whom He will love and they will love Him; humble towards the believers, stern towards the disbelievers, fighting in the Way of Allāh, and never afraid of the blame of the blamers. That is the Grace of Allāh which He bestows on whom He wills. And Allāh is All Sufficient for His creatures' needs, All Knower. (Al-Ma'idah 5:54)
October 22, 2010 12:42 PM
Ali said...
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا لاَ تَتَّخِذُوا الَّذِينَ اتَّخَذُوا دِينَكُمْ هُزُوا ً وَلَعِبا ً مِنَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُوا الْكِتَابَ مِنْ قَبْلِكُمْ وَالْكُفَّارَ أَوْلِيَاءَ وَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ إِنْ كُنتُمْ مُؤْمِنِينَ
O you who believe! Take not for Auliyā' (protectors and helpers) those who take your religion for a mockery and fun from among those who received the Scripture (Jews and Christians) before you, nor from among the disbelievers; and fear Allāh if you indeed are true believers. (Al-Ma'idah 5:57)
it is a Sad State when Muslims Care what others think of them.This shows our Weakness.not only did they colonize your Countries,they colonized your Brain!
No we have muslims Sin Yemen,A islamic country,Who want to Banteh Marriage of 9 Year old girls.
(according to their own Health Societies 9 is the age of Puberty for girls,and puberty is the rite into Adulthood)
now ,in Yemen,We have people who want to Edn the Obligatory hijab .
As if allah(WT)Sent no shari'ah to His Prophet(SWS),and As if the Prophet muhammad did not Sent a Religion for ALL TIMES When ,allah Said:
حُرِّمَتْ عَلَيْكُمُ الْمَيْتَةُ وَالدَّمُ وَلَحْمُ الْخِنزِيرِ وَمَا أُهِلَّ لِغَيْرِ اللَّهِ بِه ِِ وَالْمُنْخَنِقَةُ وَالْمَوْقُوذَةُ وَالْمُتَرَدِّيَةُ وَالنَّطِيحَةُ وَمَا أَكَلَ السَّبُعُ إِلاَّ مَا ذَكَّيْتُمْ وَمَا ذُبِحَ عَلَى النُّصُبِ وَأَنْ تَسْتَقْسِمُوا بِالأَزْلاَمِ ذَلِكُمْ فِسْق ٌ الْيَوْمَ يَئِسَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا مِنْ دِينِكُمْ فَلاَ تَخْشَوْهُمْ وَاخْشَوْنِي الْيَوْمَ أَكْمَلْتُ لَكُمْ دِينَكُمْ وَأَتْمَمْتُ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعْمَتِي وَرَضِيتُ لَكُمُ الإِسْلاَمَ دِينا ً فَمَنِ اضْطُرَّ فِي مَخْمَصَةٍ غَيْرَ مُتَجَانِف ٍ لإِثْم ٍ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُور ٌ رَحِيم
Forbidden to you (for food) are: Al-Maytatah (the dead animals - cattle-beast not slaughtered), blood, the flesh of swine, and the meat of that which has been slaughtered as a sacrifice for others than Allāh, or has been slaughtered for idols, etc., or on which Allāh's Name has not been mentioned while slaughtering, and that which has been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by the goring of horns - and that which has been (partly) eaten by a wild animal - unless you are able to slaughter it (before its death) and that which is sacrificed (slaughtered) on An Nusub (stone altars). (Forbidden) also is to use arrows seeking luck or decision, (all) that is Fisqun (disobedience of Allāh and sin). This day, those who disbelieved have given up all hope of your religion, so fear them not, but fear Me. This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islām as your religion. But as for him who is forced by severe hunger, with no inclination to sin (such can eat these above-mentioned meats), then surely, Allāh is Oft Forgiving, Most Merciful. (Al-Ma'idah 5:3)
so we See Allah chose Islam as a Religion for us
and Perfected This Religion ,when amir Al Mumineen Ali ibn abi Talib Was elected as the Successer of the Prophet Muhammad(SWS)at a pond named Ghadeer!
(The Above verse was Sent down in this Regard)
Neither did he mention mujtahids,or Re-interpretation(AKA Playing and Making a Mockery out of) of Our Religion.As if allah is bound to Time,and cultural changes of Human Beings!
Everything we need is in Quran and Sunna(handed down to us by Ahl ul-Bayt(a.s)) and ijtihad/Qiyas/Aql is a Bida(Innovation)and Every Innovattor will be Placed in Hell.
October 22, 2010 12:55 PM
zaida said...
Many people are turning away from religion because they are sick of hearing the arguments of people like Ali....by the way, he is Ismaili, everybody, not Zaidi, so please do not be put off by his comments. He even insults the Imam of the Ismailis (the Aga Khan, a respected Sayyed). Personally I think Allah wants us to respect the ahlul bait, particularly the leaders and intellectuals amongst them, whether no matter which math-hab they follow. I personally support them all and respect them and try to learn from their example.
October 23, 2010 9:10 PM
Ali said...
I Came on this blog,To Expect Something Different then Shiachat,when it comes Personal,and no Scholarly Discussions are presented.
i have not insulted the Agha khan
i have not insulted,Zaidis,Zaidism or sister Zaida,and in post''the history of zaidi revival in Sa'ada''i have let you know how i Admire your Works.
With regards to the Agha khan,his Grandfather was a Twelver Shi'a From Kirman,Iran. Now,Nizar ibn Al-Mustansir had no son,and there are Variouis Stories put into place,such as him doing Adultery with the Wife of a Da'i and thus the lineage was continued.and that a baby miracoulisly came into the Alamut and continued the Nizari lineage.
the fact is a Da'i named Agha-i Buzurg had claimed imamate at a later stage in his life and thus the Nizari imamate was Revived at a later date.
secondly,the Agha khan Beleives in Re-incarnation,Evolution(theres even a article on their site wich shows how their Ginans predicted Evoltuion before charles Darwin did!)and that he is the Maz-har of Allah(SWT),Tell me Zaida do you know what it means to call yourself a Maz-har of allah?
they also beleive'in ''''Wahdat Al-wujud''the idea that Allah Exists in Everything.the Tayyibi beelive in Wahdat Al-Mawjud,wich is scientifically Proven.
Secondly the idea of Evoltuion has been refuted:
'http://www.darwinismisso19thcentury.com/index.php www.evolutiondeceit.com/ -
The origins of superstitious religion of Darwinism
http://us1.harunyahya.com/Detail/T/EDCRFV/productId/13787
and Wahdat al-Wujud has been refuted:
http://www.harunyahya.com/matrix.php
in fact there is a Consensus of Sunni and Shi'a Muslims that This Beleif Equates Kufr.
Secondly,You or any Zaidi,NEVER answer my Questions about Imamate(Refer to post ''the history of zaidi revival in Sa'ada'''),until you do that then Do not complain of being sick of hearing arguments.
your sick of hearing them,because you cant Refute them.
how can your refute the quran?i have used only Quran.
i have Challenged the Propoganda behind Mutazili heritage of the Zaydis ,and that angers Mariam87
in fact the Ibadhis will laugh at you,for saying you have anything to do with the mutazilas!
http://www.uga.edu/islam/ibadis.html
http://www.angelfire.com/ok5/ibadhiyah/history.html
http://www.islamfact.com/books-htm/ibadi/content.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibadi
the title is Called''Huh? Morocco and Jordan send elite troops to assist humiliated Saudis in Yemen ''http://www.iraq-war.ru/article/212286
if you Respect your Massacrerers,then hey the laughs on you ,Not me !
this is exactly why the Zaydi imams had to Persecute our Community,because they couldnt Refute our Books,and sadly i feel the Zaydis still will continue with such Attitude.
October 24, 2010 6:56 AM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
In The Name of allah mostr Mercifull,most Beneficent!
May Allah Bless Muhammad and the Family of Muhammad!
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
وَدَّ كَثِير ٌ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْكِتَابِ لَوْ يَرُدُّونَكُمْ مِنْ بَعْدِ إِيمَانِكُمْ
كُفَّاراً حَسَدا ً مِنْ عِنْدِ أَنفُسِهِمْ مِنْ بَعْدِ مَا تَبَيَّنَ لَهُمُ الْحَقُّ فَاعْفُوا وَاصْفَحُوا حَتَّى يَأْتِيَ اللَّهُ بِأَمْرِهِ~ِ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْء ٍ قَدِير
(Interpretation of the Verse)
Many of the people of the Scripture wish that if they could turn you away as disbelievers after you have believed, out of envy from their ownselves, even, after the truth has become manifest unto them. But forgive and overlook, till Allāh brings His Command. Verily, Allāh is Able to do all things. (Al-Baqarah 2:109)
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يَشْتَرُونَ بِعَهْدِ اللَّهِ وَأَيْمَانِهِمْ ثَمَنا ً قَلِيلاً أُوْلَائِكَ لاَ خَلاَقَ لَهُمْ فِي الآخِرَةِ وَلاَ يُكَلِّمُهُمُ اللَّهُ وَلاَ يَنْظُرُ إِلَيْهِمْ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ وَلاَ يُزَكِّيهِمْ وَلَهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيم
(Interpretation of the verse)
Verily, those who purchase a small gain at the cost of Allāh's Covenant and their oaths, they shall have no portion in the Hereafter . Neither will Allāh speak to them, nor look at them on the Day of Resurrection, nor will He purify them, and they shall have a painful torment. (Aali Imran 3:77) بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
وَلَقَدِ اسْتُهْزِئَ بِرُسُل ٍ مِنْ قَبْلِكَ فَحَاقَ بِالَّذِينَ سَخِرُوا مِنْهُمْ مَا كَانُوا بِه ِِ يَسْتَهْزِئُون
(Interpretation of the Verse)
And indeed (many) Messengers were mocked before you, but their scoffers were surrounded by the very thing that they used to mock at. (Al-An'am 6:10)
Just because people Mock our Religion,Does this mean we stop our Religion?
just because people mocked these prophets,did it keep them from Giving their Message?
Just because people Mock Matam,do we Stop Matam?
Secondly,Tell me Zaida,And Maryam86 ,You Support Re-interpretation of islam.
but 2 Questions:
1.Can you prove from any Hadith of the Prophet muhammad or his Ahl ul-Bayt(a.s)that Ijtihad/Aql/Qiyas are not Innovations and were present during the time of our Prophet(sws)as a Legitimate form of Determining Islamic Law.
if not it is a Bida.i know sunnis make a Difference between so-called ''good Bida''and Bad Bida''but a Bida is a Bida,and the Prophet did not Distinguish between the Two.
2.Alot of young people want to do Muta,Can we Re-interpret the Verses of the Quran to Allow Muta?and maybe change muta for 4 witnesses and a Permission of Wali,to make it Halal?
and or can we just Interpret the Verses of 4 witnesses as being Metaphorical,and the permission of the Wali as Metaphorical.
since''that doesnt fit in in our Culture and age where young people want to do such Things,since the shar'ia is Outdated according to you''
and ''since 1000s of Sayyed Mujtahids support Muta,and we should Respect their Re-evaluation of the said Verses''
Now you can see how Pick and Choose you are being!
Thirdly,i have never insulted anyone,but both Mariam87 and Zaida have insulted me.
but no,it only goes one way around.
Finally,If a munafiq wants to turn away form religion,He will be Killed,and the Hadd will be applied on him/Her.
October 24, 2010 7:48 AM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
In The Name of allah most Mercifull,most Beneficent!
May Allah Bless Muhammad and the Family of Muhammad!
for every person that is turned off by religion,there are 20 people that come to the religion of allah ,Well-Accepting Towards Allah,and Allah Being-Well Accepting Towards them.
I Personally Beleive allah distinguishes between the Munafiqs and the Mukhlisin by who will Be muslims(I.e. Submit to him Entirely no ifs,and butts)and those who take a part of religion what they like.
'''If you want to show progress like the Mutazilla did in the past then you have to prove it. Creating Ahlul Bayt vs Sahaba, mourning for the Ahlul Bayt will make you no different than the 12rs''
man,the Zaydis dont Mourn Ahl ul-bayt?
Matam is one of the most important Religiouis Actions ever granted to mankind,and now the ''progressives'''want to further their Nasb and attack the Ahl ul-Bayt(a.s)?
the Ithna Ashari's have a word for people that pretend to love ahl ul-bayt but are in fact their enemies ,they are called ''Muqassir''.
they are worse then the Nasibi's
i came on this site thinking Zaydis were more closer to The Commander of the Faithfull ali(a.s) then Ithna Ashari's,But i guess i am Wrong!
Zaida,You will not affect the Zaydi muslims,from Fighting the jihad,and being Good muslims.
We have come in a age where we have islam only how people want it,where islam becomes a thing for personal pleasure.
Ali Dealt very Harshly with the Zanadiqa(Heretics),and by Allah,Ali had burned those accused of Zindiqa With fire.
how do you think ali will deal with you,if you are fititng in the criteria of Zindiqa?
Be carefull not to fall into Zindiqa,because you are not a Scholar nor have you studied all the books wich arent nccassery to Understand the Deen of allah in a Correct way.
and May Allah bless All the muslims and lead us further to Unite on his quran and his Prophet's Sunna.
(Unification of different Sects does not mean we Change our Aqa'id rather it means ,We Respect each others Viewpoints and do not attack others for those Viewpoints)
October 24, 2010 7:53 AM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
In The Name of allah most Mercifull,most Beneficent!
May Allah Bless Muhammad and the Family of Muhammad!
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
وَقَرْنَ فِي بُيُوتِكُنَّ وَلاَ تَبَرَّجْنَ تَبَرُّجَ الْجَاهِلِيَّةِ الأُولَى ۖ وَأَقِمْنَ الصَّلاَةَ وَآتِينَ الزَّكَاةَ وَأَطِعْنَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ~ُ ۚ إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ لِيُذْهِبَ عَنْكُمُ الرِّجْسَ أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ وَيُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِيرا
(Surah al-Ahzab Ayat 33 I.e. Quran 33.33] And stay in your houses and do not display your finery like the displaying of the ignorance of yore; and keep up prayer, and pay the poor-rate, and obey Allah and His Apostle. Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O people of the House! and to purify you a (thorough) purifying.
(now it says ´´Keep Away´´not ´´Remove´´(Kharaj)meaning Ahl ul-bayt Never had any rijs in the First Place.
Now One Can Claim That This Refers to The Prophets Wives ,however The Change of Gender From ´´KUn´´
To ´´Kum´´Shows The Latter Part is Refering to Males.
in Fact the Ahl Al-Kisa Who are
1.Ali
2.Fatima Al-zahra
3.Hasan Ibn Ali
4.Husayn Ibn Ali
this is Proven From the Hadith of the Cloak http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith_of_The_Cloak
Now the Words 'Innamā Yurīdu Al-Lahu Liyudh/hiba `Ankumu Ar-Rijsa 'Ahla Al-Bayti Wa Yuţahhirakum Taţhīrāan
al-Rijs(الرِّجْسَ) means ALL IMPURITY ,bad Thoughts,Bad Deeds,and Bad Intentions.
further more The words Yuţahhirakum Taţhīrāan (i.e. يُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِيرا)Means to Perfectly Purify.
So there is no room to claim people with bad intentions,sinfullness,and any type of Non-Infallible nature of all human beings to be Refered to as Ahl ul-Bayt(a.s).
they are Hashemites,but they are not Ahl ul-Bayt(a.s).
they are Aali muhammad(the Family of Muhammad)but they are not Ahl ul-Bayt(a.s)
i am well aware that there is a Verse where Ibrahim adresses his wife as Ahl ul-Bayt(a.s)but the misuse of Salafi's(and i know you agree with this Interpretation) in this Regard is Easily Refutable.
Firstly the Salafi(and You) will Say :
surah al-Maida, verse 6:
مَا يُرِيدُ اللّهُ لِيَجْعَلَ عَلَيْكُم مِّنْ حَرَجٍ وَلَـكِن يُرِيدُ لِيُطَهَّرَكُمْ وَلِيُتِمَّ نِعْمَتَهُ عَلَيْكُمْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَشْكُرُونَ
Mā Yurīdu Al-Lahu Liyaj`ala `Alaykum Min Ĥarajin Wa LakinYurīdu LiyuţahhirakumWaliyutimma Ni`matahu `Alaykum
Allah does not desire to put on you any difficulty, but He wishes to purify you and that He may complete His favor on you, so that you may be grateful.
since it refers to the ummah,and the ummah is not infallible(well according to Fakhrudeen Al-Razi it is!),therefore Ahl ul-Bayt(a.s)are not Infallible.
firstly the latter Verse said :''Liyuţahhirakum''(لِيُطَهَّرَكُمْ)and did not Mention '' تَطْهِير''the word ' تَطْهِيرا Wich would Imply Perfect Purification.
Secondly the ummah has sinned,whereas the former Verse Says nothing about removing (Takhrijan)the impurity from ahl ul-Bayt(a.s),it rather says Keep away(Tahdhiban).
Kharaj(remove)is not used in the Verse,Even though the sunni Translations State such Things.
October 24, 2010 8:41 AM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
In The Name of allah most Mercifull,most Beneficent!
May Allah Bless Muhammad and the Family of Muhammad!
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
the Second Argument is:
verse 11 of surah al-Anfal, Allah said:
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
إِذْ يُغَشِّيكُمُ النُّعَاسَ أَمَنَةً مِّنْهُ وَيُنَزِّلُ عَلَيْكُم مِّن السَّمَاء مَاء لِّيُطَهِّرَكُم بِهِ وَيُذْهِبَ عَنكُمْ رِجْزَ الشَّيْطَانِ وَلِيَرْبِطَ عَلَى قُلُوبِكُمْ وَيُثَبِّتَ بِهِ الأَقْدَامَ
‘Idh Yughashshīkumu An-Nu`āsa ‘Amanatan Minhu Wa Yunazzilu `Alaykum Mina As-Samā’i Mā’anLiyuţahhirakum Bihi Wa Yudh/hiba `Ankum Rijza Ash-Shayţāni Wa Liyarbiţa `Alá Qulūbikum Wa Yuthabbita Bihi Al-’Aqdāma
When He caused calm to fall on you as a security from Him and sent down upon you water from the cloud that He might thereby purify you, and take away from you the uncleanness of the Shaitan, and that He might fortify your hearts and steady (your) footsteps thereby.
the translation is incorrect as Yud-hiba means Keep away and not Remove,Kharaj means Remove Yukhrij(he takes away)Khawarij(those who are removed),and allah is saying he wants to keep away the Uncleanliness of Shaytan.
the difference between this verse and the other is Still''تَطْهِيرا''wich implies perfect Purification.this word is not used in these verses with regard to the Word Tathirakum..
Regarding the wives and the Verse regarding Ibrahim's Family,I can provide a Explanation to this.
and Prove your Calling the Awam al-Momineen(Radhiyallahu anhunna)(mothers of the Beleivers),and your Zaydi imams Ahl ul-Bayt(a.s) is totally Flawed!
October 24, 2010 8:59 AM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
In The Name of allah most Mercifull,most Beneficent!
May Allah Bless Muhammad and the Family of Muhammad!
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
يَاأَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ قُلْ لِأزْوَاجِكَ إِنْ كُنْتُنَّ تُرِدْنَ الْحَيَاةَ الدُّنْيَا وَزِينَتَهَا فَتَعَالَيْنَ أُمَتِّعْكُنَّ وَأُسَرِّحْكُنَّ سَرَاحا ً جَمِيلا
O Prophet ! Say to your wives: If you desire the life of this world, and its glitter, Then come! I will make a provision for you and set you free in a handsome manner . (Al-Ahzab 33:28)
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
وَإِنْ كُنْتُنَّ تُرِدْنَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَه ُُ وَالدَّارَ الآخِرَةَ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ أَعَدَّ لِلْمُحْسِنَاتِ مِنْكُنَّ أَجْراً عَظِيما
But if you desire Allāh and His Messenger, and the home of the Hereafter, then verily, Allāh has prepared for Al Muhsināt (good doers) amongst you an enormous reward. (Al-Ahzab 33:29)
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
يَانِسَاءَ النَّبِيِّ مَنْ يَأْتِ مِنْكُنَّ بِفَاحِشَة ٍ مُبَيِّنَة ٍ يُضَاعَفْ لَهَا الْعَذَابُ ضِعْفَيْنِ وَكَانَ ذَلِكَ عَلَى اللَّهِ يَسِيرا
O wives of the Prophet! Whoever of you commits an open illegal sexual intercourse, the torment for her will be doubled, and that is ever easy for Allāh. (Al-Ahzab 33:30)
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
وَمَنْ يَقْنُتْ مِنْكُنَّ لِلَّهِ وَرَسُولِه ِِ وَتَعْمَلْ صَالِحا ً نُؤْتِهَا أَجْرَهَا مَرَّتَيْنِ وَأَعْتَدْنَا لَهَا رِزْقا ً كَرِيما
And whosoever of you is obedient to Allāh and His Messenger , and does righteous good deeds, We shall give her, her reward twice over, and We have prepared for her Rizqan Karima (a noble provision Paradise). (Al-Ahzab 33:31)
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
يَانِسَاءَ النَّبِيِّ لَسْتُنَّ كَأَحَد ٍ مِنَ النِسَاء إِنِ اتَّقَيْتُنَّ فَلاَ تَخْضَعْنَ بِالْقَوْلِ فَيَطْمَعَ الَّذِي فِي قَلْبِه ِِ مَرَض ٌ وَقُلْنَ قَوْلا ً مَعْرُوفا
O wives of the Prophet! You are not like any other women. If you keep your duty (to Allāh), then be not soft in speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease (of hypocrisy, or evil desire for adultery, etc.) should be moved with desire, but speak in an honourable manner. (Al-Ahzab 33:32)
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
وَقَرْنَ فِي بُيُوتِكُنَّ وَلاَ تَبَرَّجْنَ تَبَرُّجَ الْجَاهِلِيَّةِ الأُولَى وَأَقِمْنَ الصَّلاَةَ وَآتِينَ الزَّكَاةَ وَأَطِعْنَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ~ُ إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ لِيُذْهِبَ عَنْكُمُ الرِّجْسَ أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ وَيُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِيرا
And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance, and perform As-Salāt (Iqamāt as Salāt), and give Zakāt and obey Allāh and His Messenger. Allāh wishes only to remove Ar Rijs (evil deeds and sins, etc.) from you, O members of the family (of the Prophet SAW), and to purify you with a thorough purification. (Al-Ahzab 33:33)
Now,this would Contradict the Verse,because,Allah says to the wives the Messsenger may divorce them.and it warns them off sins.this would be unneccassery if they had been Purified from all sins.
And the Messenger of Allah Divorced A'isha the first divorce(Talaqtuki)when She had divulged his Secret Concerning Mariya al-Kibtiya(Radhiyallahu anha)(according to Isma'ili Tafsir,im aware there are Different Tafasir on this Verse)
furthermore even if we accept ibrahim called his wife ahl ul-bayt,nowhere was his ahl ul-bayt perfectly purified .
whereas Muhammad's Ahl ul-bayt was purified.
so even this Point would exclude the wives from Muhammads Ahl ul-bayt,even if Wives Generally are Ahl ul-bayt for other prophets(a.s)and Messengers(a.s).
October 24, 2010 9:02 AM
Ali said...
salaam zaida,how is my ideas tooken from the Salafis?
isma'ilis have always rejected ijtihad and re-interpretation of the deen,theyve always waged jihad and created a empire,and theyve always implemented shari'a very seriously.
seeing that salafism is a invention from the 18th century it is more likely they copied from us!
also if a muslim,who follows quran and sunnah is a ''salafi''then all muslims in the world will be ''salafi'because they reject your interpretation of revisionizing the deen of allah.
Ali said...
Collaboraters
(Interpretation of the verse)
The recompense of those who fight God and His messenger, and seek to make corruption in the land, is that they will be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off on alternate sides or that they be banished from the land; that is a disgrace for them in this world and in the Hereafter they will have a great retribution. Except for those who repent before you overpower them, then know that God is Forgiving, Merciful.” (Quran 5:33-34)
Police working for Occupation forces
(Interpretation of the Verse)
You will find others who want to be safe amongst you and safe amongst their own people. Every time they are returned to the test, they fall back in it. If they do not withdraw from you, and offer you peace, and restrain their hands, then you shall take them and kill them where you find them. For these We have given you a clear authority.” (Quran 4:91)
so if they dont offer peace,we must kill them wherever we find them.if they dont Restrain from what theyre doing(i.e helping the occupation forces in anyway,translatros,cooks and cleaners,radio workers,news casts and governers)We must Kill them.
What about people who sell clothes to the occupation forces? or those who are theyre doctors,or those who give moral support to them?
(interpretation of the Verse)
When you were on the near side, and they were on the far side, then the supply line became directly beneath you. And had you planned for this meeting, you would have disagreed on its timing, but God was to enforce a command that was already done. So that He would destroy those to be destroyed with proof, and to let those who will live be alive with proof. God is Hearer, Knowledgeable.” (Quran 8:42)
Prisoners of War:
(Interpretation of the Verses)
“And it was not for any prophet to take prisoners unless it was in battle. You desire the materials of this world, while God wants the Hereafter for you. God is Noble, Wise.” (Quran 8:67)
“O prophet, say to those prisoners whom you hold: “If God finds in your hearts any good, He will grant you better than what He took from you, and He will forgive you. God is Forgiving, Merciful.” (Quran 8:70)
“So, if you encounter those who have rejected, then strike their flanks until you overcome them, then bind them securely. You may either set them free or ransom them, until the war ends. And had God willed, He alone could have beaten them, but He thus tests you by one another. As for those who get killed in the cause of God, He will never let their deeds be put to waste.” (Quran 47:4)
October 20, 2010 7:56 AM
Ali said...
so they are to Be Treated Kindly,and they may not be harmed except ransomed or set free.
What About the UN?
(Interpretation of the Verse)
“And if they are told: ‘Do not make evil in the land,’ they Say: ‘But we are the reformers!’ No, they are the evildoers, but they do not perceive.” (Quran 2:11-12)
they aere a legitimate target,and they assisted the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq,the occupation of sham,and the killing of Muqawamma soldiers in Lebanon.
What about Mutilating Dead Bodies?
(Interpretation of The Verse)
"So God sent forth a raven to scratch the land and show him how to deal with the wickedness inflicted upon his brother. He said: “O my, am I not able to be like this raven and deal with the wickedness inflicted upon my brother!” So he became of those who regretted." (Quran 5:31)
It is Impermissable to Mutilate dead bodies at All Tiems.
What About Peacefull protests and Negotations?
(Interpretation of the Verse)
God already knows which of you are the hinderers, and those who say to their brothers: ‘Come and stay with us.’ Rarely do they mobilize for battle. They are miserable towards you. Then, when fear comes, you see their eyes rolling, as if death had already come to them. But once the fear is gone, they lash-out at you with sharp tongues. They are miserable towards doing any good. These have not believed, so God nullifies their works. This is easy for God to do.” (Quran 33:18-19)
These people who call for PEacefull protests are Hypocrites and Are in fact Disbeleivers in Allah's Message.they have denied allah being able to Take Ibrahim from the Fire,and The Ahl Al-Kahf being asleep for 300 years int heri cave from the seclusion of people,they have denied the Signs of Isa(a.s)And Muhammad(a.s),they have denied the Sign of Musa(a.s) against Firawn(a.s)and the sign of Yusuf(a.s) against The Prisoners,when they say the Army of the DEvil is more powerfull then the musklimjs,and we cannot defeat them.
For allah Says(Interpretation of The Verse)
“It was not you who killed them, but it was God who killed them. And it was not you who launched when you did, but it was God who launched. And so that the believers would be tested well by God. God is Hearer, Knowledgeable.’” (Quran 8:17)
Also Allah Says:
(Interpretation of the Verses)
If God grants you victory then none can defeat you, and if He abandons you then who can grant you victory after Him? And towards God the believers should put their trust.” (Quran 3:160)
“O you who believe, if you support God, He will support you, and make your foothold firm.” (Quran 47:7)
Also allah has Said about the Party of Allah(Al-HizbAllah)
(Interpretation of the Verse)
Waman yatawalla Allaha warasoolahu waallatheena amanoo fa-inna hizba Allahi humu alghaliboona
for, all who ally themselves with God and His Apostle and those who have attained to faith - behold, it is they, the partisans of God, who shall be victorious!
(Quran 5:56)
October 20, 2010 7:57 AM
Ali said...
Allah Says:
(Interpretation of the Verses)
“O you who believe, what is wrong with you when you are told: “March forth in the cause of God,” you become heavy on Earth. Have you become content with this worldly life over the Hereafter? The enjoyment of this worldly life compared to the Hereafter is nothing.” (Quran 9:38)
“March forth in light gear or heavy gear, and strive with your money and lives in the cause of God. That is best if you knew.” (Quran 9:41)
So we Are to March forth in Jihad,and we cannot abandon jihad without a Valid shar'i Excuse.
What about Leaders(Presidents,prime ministers)?
(Interpretation of the Verse)
And if they break their oaths after making them, and they denounce the authority of your system; then you may kill the chiefs of rejection. Their oaths are nothing to them, perhaps they will then cease.” (Quran 9:12)
what about Striking Enemy formations :
(Interpretation of the Verse)
So, if you encounter those who have rejected, then strike their formations until you overcome them, then bind them securely. You may either set them free or ransom them, until the war ends. And had God willed, He alone could have beaten them, but He thus tests you by one another. As for those who get killed in the cause of God, He will never let their deeds be put to waste.” (Quran 47:4)
The Number of Fighters do not Matter
(Interpretation of the Verse)
“God had granted you victory at Badr while you had been the lesser, so revere God that you may be thankful. When you said to the believers: “Is it not enough for you that God would supply you with three thousand of the Angels sent down?” Indeed, if you are patient and are righteous and they come and attack you, He will supply you with five thousand of the Angels battle trained.” (Quran 3:124-125)
Stay Firm on the Battle field in jihad:
(Interpretation of the Verses)
“O you who believe; when you encounter those who have rejected on the battlefield, then do not flee from them. And whoever on that day flees from them; unless it is part of the battle strategy or if he is retreating back to his group; then he has drawn God’s wrath upon him, and his abode will be Hell. What a miserable destiny.” (Quran 8:15-16)
“O you who believe, when you meet a force, stand firm and mention God excessively, that you may succeed.” (Quran 8:45)
Atatck the Bases of Traitors(this includes anybody who ccoperates with the occdupying force including morally)
(Interpretation of the Verse)
And if you are being betrayed by a people, then you shall likewise move against them. God does not like the betrayers.” (Quran 8:58)
Gather the muslims to Fight the enemy of allah(SWT)and his Emmissary(SAAS)
(Interpretation of the Verse)
“O prophet, urge the believers to fight. If there are twenty of you who are patient, they will defeat two hundred. And if there are one hundred of you, they will defeat one thousand from amongst those who reject; that is because they are a people who do not comprehend.” (Quran 8:65)
Eshtablish the rule of Islam.
(Interpretation of the Verses)
“…And whoever does not judge by what God has sent down, then these are the rejecters.” (Quran 5:44)
“…And whoever does not judge by what God has sent down, then these are the wicked.” (Quran 5:45)
“…And whoever does not judge by what God has sent down, then these are the vile ones.” (Quran 5:47)
October 20, 2010 8:06 AM
Ali the Ismaili writes:
the Traditions of Ahl Ul-Bayt(a.s)Are Unanimouis in the Cutting of the The Theifs Hand.
in Fact the Twelvers Say its only 4 Fingers of the right hand,i dont know You Guys Stance on it.
There is a Famouis Hadith Where Ali(a.s)Cut off the Hand of the Criminal,and the criminal was Happy Ali did it to him,and not somebody else.
then Ali put his hand back,because of his Love for the Imams(a.s).
Secondly Whipping the Adulterer is a Consensus of the Ahl ul-Bayt(Peace be upon them).
Teh Question Arises isnt t Cruel to cutm of somebodies hand?
Well Jafar Bin Muhammad asnwered this by Saying :his breaching of his Trustworthiness lowered the Value of his Hand.
Secondly is the Hands of a Few Criminals Worth the Safety of and entire Society?
we all saw what happened in the Blackouts of the United states and Australia.
people couldnt even go outside.
and the Cutting of the hand Helps the Criminal,it saves him from Punishment in the Hereafter for Stealing,and lets him make something good of his life.
is the Whipping of a Few Adulterers worth the stability of the entire people?
i think so.
i think that the ummah is more important than a few adulterers.
October 20, 2010 7:23 AM
Ali said...
Also Tell me if i am mistaken,but arent Zaydis really Violent when it comes to Imamate?like Violence is a part of eshtablishing the Imamate?
And Taqiyah Being Void To You,and you msut rise up against a opressive ruler?
and Also the Quran mentions Jihad in the following Terms:
(Interpretation of the Verse)
“And if two parties of believers battle with each other, you shall reconcile them; but if one of them aggresses against the other, then you shall fight the one aggressing until it complies with God's command. Once it complies, then you shall reconcile the two groups with justice, and be equitable; for God loves those who are equitable. The believers are brothers; so reconcile between your brothers, and be aware of God, that you may receive mercy.” (Quran 49:9-10)
so we should Reconcile people first,then if that doesnt work fight.
All Nations Should Have Weapons:
(Interpretationm Of the Verse)
And muster for them all that you can of might, and from the steeds of war, that you may instil fear with it towards God’s enemy and your enemy, and others beside them whom you do not know but God knows them. And whatever you spend in the cause of God will be returned to you, and you will not be wronged.” (Quran 8:60)
Shari'a Law must be Impelented in all circumstances:
(Interpetation of The Verse)
“And judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow their wishes, and beware lest they divert you away from some of what God has sent down to you. If they turn away, then know that God wants to inflict them with some of their sins; and most of the people are corrupt. Is it the judgment of the days of ignorance that they seek? Who is better than God as a judge for a people that comprehend? (Quran 5:49-50)
Killing the Invadiung Froces is Obligatory,this includes their cooks,Hospitals,and all froms of asupport including cleaners.
(Interpreatation of the Verse)
And fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress, God does not like the aggressors. And kill them wherever you find them, and expel them from where they expelled you, and know that persecution is worse than being killed. And do not fight them at the restricted Temple unless they fight you in it; if they fight you then kill them, thus is the reward of the disbelievers.” (Quran 2:190-191)
October 20, 2010 7:35 AM
Ali said...
Collaboraters
(Interpretation of the verse)
The recompense of those who fight God and His messenger, and seek to make corruption in the land, is that they will be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off on alternate sides or that they be banished from the land; that is a disgrace for them in this world and in the Hereafter they will have a great retribution. Except for those who repent before you overpower them, then know that God is Forgiving, Merciful.” (Quran 5:33-34)
Police working for Occupation forces
(Interpretation of the Verse)
You will find others who want to be safe amongst you and safe amongst their own people. Every time they are returned to the test, they fall back in it. If they do not withdraw from you, and offer you peace, and restrain their hands, then you shall take them and kill them where you find them. For these We have given you a clear authority.” (Quran 4:91)
so if they dont offer peace,we must kill them wherever we find them.if they dont Restrain from what theyre doing(i.e helping the occupation forces in anyway,translatros,cooks and cleaners,radio workers,news casts and governers)We must Kill them.
What about people who sell clothes to the occupation forces? or those who are theyre doctors,or those who give moral support to them?
(interpretation of the Verse)
When you were on the near side, and they were on the far side, then the supply line became directly beneath you. And had you planned for this meeting, you would have disagreed on its timing, but God was to enforce a command that was already done. So that He would destroy those to be destroyed with proof, and to let those who will live be alive with proof. God is Hearer, Knowledgeable.” (Quran 8:42)
Prisoners of War:
(Interpretation of the Verses)
“And it was not for any prophet to take prisoners unless it was in battle. You desire the materials of this world, while God wants the Hereafter for you. God is Noble, Wise.” (Quran 8:67)
“O prophet, say to those prisoners whom you hold: “If God finds in your hearts any good, He will grant you better than what He took from you, and He will forgive you. God is Forgiving, Merciful.” (Quran 8:70)
“So, if you encounter those who have rejected, then strike their flanks until you overcome them, then bind them securely. You may either set them free or ransom them, until the war ends. And had God willed, He alone could have beaten them, but He thus tests you by one another. As for those who get killed in the cause of God, He will never let their deeds be put to waste.” (Quran 47:4)
October 20, 2010 7:56 AM
Ali said...
so they are to Be Treated Kindly,and they may not be harmed except ransomed or set free.
What About the UN?
(Interpretation of the Verse)
“And if they are told: ‘Do not make evil in the land,’ they Say: ‘But we are the reformers!’ No, they are the evildoers, but they do not perceive.” (Quran 2:11-12)
they aere a legitimate target,and they assisted the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq,the occupation of sham,and the killing of Muqawamma soldiers in Lebanon.
What about Mutilating Dead Bodies?
(Interpretation of The Verse)
"So God sent forth a raven to scratch the land and show him how to deal with the wickedness inflicted upon his brother. He said: “O my, am I not able to be like this raven and deal with the wickedness inflicted upon my brother!” So he became of those who regretted." (Quran 5:31)
It is Impermissable to Mutilate dead bodies at All Tiems.
What About Peacefull protests and Negotations?
(Interpretation of the Verse)
God already knows which of you are the hinderers, and those who say to their brothers: ‘Come and stay with us.’ Rarely do they mobilize for battle. They are miserable towards you. Then, when fear comes, you see their eyes rolling, as if death had already come to them. But once the fear is gone, they lash-out at you with sharp tongues. They are miserable towards doing any good. These have not believed, so God nullifies their works. This is easy for God to do.” (Quran 33:18-19)
These people who call for PEacefull protests are Hypocrites and Are in fact Disbeleivers in Allah's Message.they have denied allah being able to Take Ibrahim from the Fire,and The Ahl Al-Kahf being asleep for 300 years int heri cave from the seclusion of people,they have denied the Signs of Isa(a.s)And Muhammad(a.s),they have denied the Sign of Musa(a.s) against Firawn(a.s)and the sign of Yusuf(a.s) against The Prisoners,when they say the Army of the DEvil is more powerfull then the musklimjs,and we cannot defeat them.
For allah Says(Interpretation of The Verse)
“It was not you who killed them, but it was God who killed them. And it was not you who launched when you did, but it was God who launched. And so that the believers would be tested well by God. God is Hearer, Knowledgeable.’” (Quran 8:17)
Also Allah Says:
(Interpretation of the Verses)
If God grants you victory then none can defeat you, and if He abandons you then who can grant you victory after Him? And towards God the believers should put their trust.” (Quran 3:160)
“O you who believe, if you support God, He will support you, and make your foothold firm.” (Quran 47:7)
Also allah has Said about the Party of Allah(Al-HizbAllah)
(Interpretation of the Verse)
Waman yatawalla Allaha warasoolahu waallatheena amanoo fa-inna hizba Allahi humu alghaliboona
for, all who ally themselves with God and His Apostle and those who have attained to faith - behold, it is they, the partisans of God, who shall be victorious!
(Quran 5:56)
October 20, 2010 7:57 AM
Ali said...
Allah Says:
(Interpretation of the Verses)
“O you who believe, what is wrong with you when you are told: “March forth in the cause of God,” you become heavy on Earth. Have you become content with this worldly life over the Hereafter? The enjoyment of this worldly life compared to the Hereafter is nothing.” (Quran 9:38)
“March forth in light gear or heavy gear, and strive with your money and lives in the cause of God. That is best if you knew.” (Quran 9:41)
So we Are to March forth in Jihad,and we cannot abandon jihad without a Valid shar'i Excuse.
What about Leaders(Presidents,prime ministers)?
(Interpretation of the Verse)
And if they break their oaths after making them, and they denounce the authority of your system; then you may kill the chiefs of rejection. Their oaths are nothing to them, perhaps they will then cease.” (Quran 9:12)
what about Striking Enemy formations :
(Interpretation of the Verse)
So, if you encounter those who have rejected, then strike their formations until you overcome them, then bind them securely. You may either set them free or ransom them, until the war ends. And had God willed, He alone could have beaten them, but He thus tests you by one another. As for those who get killed in the cause of God, He will never let their deeds be put to waste.” (Quran 47:4)
The Number of Fighters do not Matter
(Interpretation of the Verse)
“God had granted you victory at Badr while you had been the lesser, so revere God that you may be thankful. When you said to the believers: “Is it not enough for you that God would supply you with three thousand of the Angels sent down?” Indeed, if you are patient and are righteous and they come and attack you, He will supply you with five thousand of the Angels battle trained.” (Quran 3:124-125)
Stay Firm on the Battle field in jihad:
(Interpretation of the Verses)
“O you who believe; when you encounter those who have rejected on the battlefield, then do not flee from them. And whoever on that day flees from them; unless it is part of the battle strategy or if he is retreating back to his group; then he has drawn God’s wrath upon him, and his abode will be Hell. What a miserable destiny.” (Quran 8:15-16)
“O you who believe, when you meet a force, stand firm and mention God excessively, that you may succeed.” (Quran 8:45)
Atatck the Bases of Traitors(this includes anybody who ccoperates with the occdupying force including morally)
(Interpretation of the Verse)
And if you are being betrayed by a people, then you shall likewise move against them. God does not like the betrayers.” (Quran 8:58)
Gather the muslims to Fight the enemy of allah(SWT)and his Emmissary(SAAS)
(Interpretation of the Verse)
“O prophet, urge the believers to fight. If there are twenty of you who are patient, they will defeat two hundred. And if there are one hundred of you, they will defeat one thousand from amongst those who reject; that is because they are a people who do not comprehend.” (Quran 8:65)
Eshtablish the rule of Islam.
(Interpretation of the Verses)
“…And whoever does not judge by what God has sent down, then these are the rejecters.” (Quran 5:44)
“…And whoever does not judge by what God has sent down, then these are the wicked.” (Quran 5:45)
“…And whoever does not judge by what God has sent down, then these are the vile ones.” (Quran 5:47)
October 20, 2010 8:06 AM
zaida said...
Dear Readers, I would just like to point out that the person making the above comments is not a Zaidi, therefore we Zaidis do not take responsibility for any of the above comments, which include, if I understand them properly, the idea that it is halal to kill cooks, translators and doctors etc who happen to be on the opposing side in a battle!
I can’t respond to all of Ali’s comments right now, but just to make a start, regarding the verse concerning covering of women’s bodies, I disagree with Ali’s interpretation. See comments section of “Zaidism and Women’s Liberation” (posted on July 27), I will post my response to him there.
About the misleading title of my article, I usually add the word “zaidi” to the titles on this blog so that they will be linked to this blog in Google searches. It is true that my perspective is not always the same as the official Zaidi line, which is well represented here by Imam Rassi Society. I acknowledge that I am on the fringe of Zaidism and pushing its boundaries. So far, the Zaidis are not complaining, so unless you are actually a Zaidi I will ignore your protests about my opinions being outside Zaidism.
October 20, 2010 4:35 PM
zaida said...
To Pro ahlul bait:
I think I already pointed out in my article "The Relationship between Mu'tazilism and Zaidism" (August 25) that, in contrast to the Sunni literalism espoused by, among others Abu Hanifa, Imam Zaid was not a literalist. In that article I compared their contrasting interpretations of "the Hand of Allah". While Abu Hanifa mentioned that he and other "ahlussanna" do not see it figuratively "the way the Mu'tazilah do", (his own words), Imam Zaid listed all the "higher level" meanings of "hand" and said the word is used that way in Arabic poetry. i.e. he made ta'wil. I got this info from the book you sent me, by the way. Therefore i does not seem strange to me that later mu'tazilis did not interpret the "bridge" and the "tank" literally. I do not think their opinions are weird. They had learnt to respond to the Arabic language on a higher level than the literal level, just as Imam Zaid (and other members of ahlul bait) had.
October 20, 2010 4:48 PM
ProAhlulBayt1 said...
To Zaida
As brother IRS pointed out the Zaydis are latest inheritors of knowledge when it comes to the Mutazilla views. In the end, even brother IRS refuted your article. Just because Allah's hand is not taken literally, doesn't mean the punishment of theft shouldn't be implied literally. Also, I've told you that Fiqh e Akbar was compiled by Abu Hanifa's (ra) student Abu Yusuf who was anti mutazilla. If Abu Hanifa (ra) really made such a view the Mutazilla would be the first ones to condemn him. On the contrary, they believe fiqh e akbar isn't his views on theology.
October 20, 2010 6:04 PM
zaida said...
Well if Fiqhul akbar doesn't reflect Abu Hanifa's veiws and he really agreed with Imam Zaid and the Mu'tazilis about ta'wil, somebody had better inform the world's billions of sunni muslims that they have got it wrong. We still don't know if brother IRS is going to refute the views of the Mu'tazilis which you listed above (where did you get that list by the way?) And as far as I'm concerned, if Allah's "hand" can be understood metaphorically, why can't a thief's "hand" be understood as his "ability to steal"? As a mu'tazili, I am allowed to speculate about these things, even if you aren't as a sunni.
October 20, 2010 6:25 PM
zaida said...
….and the advantage of Zaidism is that we can have a living ahlul bait Imam. It is the role of the ahlul bait/ Hashemite Imam to interpret Islam in the appropriate way for his followers in his time and his region. As the Zaidi Imamate in Yemen has been out of operation since 1962, we can only speculate about what a properly elected Zaidi Imam would have say about issues that affect Muslims in 2010. It is interesting to note, however, that a descendant of that most recent Zaidi Imamate, the Hamidaddin Imamate, has made comments above which depart from the traditional Zaidism of his forefathers. I interpret this as a sign that, when a Zaidi Imamate is re-established, it will not be a carbon copy of the 1962 Imamate which was ousted. The fact is, the reason it was ousted in 1962 was that it had become stale and out of touch with modern day reality. Zaidis need to learn from this. Any new Imamate will need a fresh new way of looking at things.
October 20, 2010 7:34 PM
Ali said...
salam alaykum.
how are they ahl ul-bayt?
when ahl ul-bayt has perfectly purified,but hese people love wine,women and dancing?
secondly they promote peace ,if you call peace,discouraging the jihad,and imprisoning the mujahedin in their lands.
if you call peace opressing berbers,and holding 100,000's of political prisoners in compounds,i dont call that peace nor sending military to kill palistinian fighters.
and what is your Obsession with descendancy?you are getting like Iranians,who basically worship the Sayedzadeh and have a obsession with the concept of ''Haramzadeh''''
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJn3ykUDwAM
THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN "HARAM ZADA" AND "WALIDUL ZINA"
looool,
secondly i answered you on http://zaidism.blogspot.com/2010/08/history-of-zaidi-revival-in-saada.html
the rest
did you know these hashemite leaders sent troops to kill other hashemite leaders in Sa'sada read the article i provided in the above post.
also i shall answer you on Khimr Shortly insha'Allah and the misuse of modern adherents to ''''British islam''.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RouGfvhubpY
British Government wants to buy ISLAM!
very funny video.gives some insight.
October 21, 2010 12:10 PM
Ali said...
@ProAhlulBayt1,It is not The Zaydiyah who uphold the Mutazili Spirit but rather the Ibadhi
http://www.angelfire.com/ok5/ibadhiyah/ibadhisunni.html
This gives a list of Ibadhi Vs.Sunni interpretations of the Deen.
they beleive,the angels are higher then messenegrs,and yes they beleive the Sirat is metaphorical.
i have personallly confirmed this from a Ibadhi,as i am active on Omanforums.com
October 21, 2010 12:26 PM
ProAhlulBayt1 said...
There is a hadith hasn't been rejected by any traditional school of thought.
A'isha reported that the Quraish had been anxious about the Makhzumi woman who had committed theft, and said: Who will speak to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) about her? They said: Who dare it, but Usama, the loved one of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him)? So Usama spoke to him. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Do you intercede regarding one of the punishments prescribed by Allah? He then stood up and addressed (people) saying: O people, those who have gone before you were destroyed, because if any one of high rank committed theft amongst them, they spared him; and it anyone of low rank committed theft, they inflicted the prescribed punishment upon him. By Allah, if Fatima, daughter of Muhammad, were to steal, I would have her hand cut off. In the hadith transmitted on the authority of Ibn Rumh (the words are):" Verily those before you perished." (Sahih Muslim)
October 21, 2010 3:21 PM
Ali said...
there is a so -called Fabricated Hadith:''We have returned from the lesser Jihad (battle) to the greater Jihad”,''
The Narrator is Ibrahim ibn abi ablah and he is a Tabi'i not a Sahabi.
Ibn Taymiyyah said in Al-Furqan PP. 44-45: “This hadith has no sources and nobody whomsoever in the field of Islamic knowledge has narrated it. Jihad against the disbelivers is the most noble of actions and moreover it is the most important action for the mankind.”
Al-Khateeb al-Baghdadi reports it is daeef (weak) due to the narrator Khalaf bin Muhammad bin Ismail Al-Khiyam. Al-Haakim says, “His hadeeths are unreliable”. Abu Ya’la Al-Khalili says, “He often adulterates, is very weak and narrates unknown hadith.” (Mashari-ul-Ashwaq, Ibn Nuhas 1/31).
There is also the narrator Yahya bin Al-Ula who is a known liar and forgerer of hadith (Ahmad). Amru bin Ali, An-Nasai and Ad-Daraqutni state, “His hadith are renounced.” Ibn Adi states, “His hadith are false.” (Tahzeeb-ut-Tahzeeb 11/261-262)
Ibn Hajar said, “He was accused of forging hadith.” (At-Taghrib). Adh-dhahabi said, “Abu Hatim said that he is not a strong narrator, Ibn Ma’een classified him as weak and Ad-Daraqutni said that he is to be neglected.”
October 22, 2010 10:46 AM
Ali said...
Furthermore allah Says About Jihad:
لاَ يَسْتَوِي الْقَاعِدُونَ مِنَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ غَيْرُ أُوْلِي الضَّرَرِ وَالْمُجَاهِدُونَ فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ بِأَمْوَالِهِمْ وَأَنفُسِهِمْ فَضَّلَ اللَّهُ الْمُجَاهِدِينَ بِأَمْوَالِهِمْ وَأَنفُسِهِمْ عَلَى الْقَاعِدِينَ دَرَجَة ً وَكُلاّ ً وَعَدَ اللَّهُ الْحُسْنَى وَفَضَّلَ اللَّهُ الْمُجَاهِدِينَ عَلَى الْقَاعِدِينَ أَجْراً عَظِيما
Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home). Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward; Degrees of (higher) grades from Him, and Forgiveness and Mercy. And Allah is Ever Oft*Forgiving, Most Merciful.”(Quran 4:95)
Secondly,It is Absolute Conrqadiction in your Interpretation to Say the Yad in this case means Power when,You say Isa was Raised(Rafa'a) to then right hand of allah!and you say Isa(a.s)was ''Raised''(Rafa'a)to allah!When Rafa'a is used many times in the quran and it all means rasing in a Metaphorical way.but Wahb ibn Munnabih and Kab al-Ahbar Two Sana'ani former Jews,took from the books of Ahl ul-Kitab,and now you beleive in Isa(a.s)Coming back.
I have Personally confirmed this from a Zaydi,who Beleived that Isa(a.s)Will come back.
(Frankly,only Isma'ilis,Qadianis,and Quran only beleive Isa(a.s) is Dead)
October 22, 2010 10:54 AM
Ali said...
'''''''Many people are turning away from religion because they perceive that it is to blame for much of the violence in the world.''
'يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا مَنْ يَرْتَدَّ مِنْكُمْ عَنْ دِينِه ِِ فَسَوْفَ يَأْتِي اللَّهُ بِقَوْم ٍ يُحِبُّهُمْ وَيُحِبُّونَهُ~ُ أَذِلَّةٍ عَلَى الْمُؤْمِنِينَ أَعِزَّةٍ عَلَى الْكَافِرِينَ يُجَاهِدُونَ فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ وَلاَ يَخَافُونَ لَوْمَةَ لاَئِم ٍ ذَلِكَ فَضْلُ اللَّهِ يُؤْتِيه ِِ مَنْ يَشَاءُ وَاللَّهُ وَاسِعٌ عَلِيم
O you who believe! Whoever from among you turns back from his religion (Islām), Allāh will bring a people whom He will love and they will love Him; humble towards the believers, stern towards the disbelievers, fighting in the Way of Allāh, and never afraid of the blame of the blamers. That is the Grace of Allāh which He bestows on whom He wills. And Allāh is All Sufficient for His creatures' needs, All Knower. (Al-Ma'idah 5:54)
October 22, 2010 12:42 PM
Ali said...
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا لاَ تَتَّخِذُوا الَّذِينَ اتَّخَذُوا دِينَكُمْ هُزُوا ً وَلَعِبا ً مِنَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُوا الْكِتَابَ مِنْ قَبْلِكُمْ وَالْكُفَّارَ أَوْلِيَاءَ وَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ إِنْ كُنتُمْ مُؤْمِنِينَ
O you who believe! Take not for Auliyā' (protectors and helpers) those who take your religion for a mockery and fun from among those who received the Scripture (Jews and Christians) before you, nor from among the disbelievers; and fear Allāh if you indeed are true believers. (Al-Ma'idah 5:57)
it is a Sad State when Muslims Care what others think of them.This shows our Weakness.not only did they colonize your Countries,they colonized your Brain!
No we have muslims Sin Yemen,A islamic country,Who want to Banteh Marriage of 9 Year old girls.
(according to their own Health Societies 9 is the age of Puberty for girls,and puberty is the rite into Adulthood)
now ,in Yemen,We have people who want to Edn the Obligatory hijab .
As if allah(WT)Sent no shari'ah to His Prophet(SWS),and As if the Prophet muhammad did not Sent a Religion for ALL TIMES When ,allah Said:
حُرِّمَتْ عَلَيْكُمُ الْمَيْتَةُ وَالدَّمُ وَلَحْمُ الْخِنزِيرِ وَمَا أُهِلَّ لِغَيْرِ اللَّهِ بِه ِِ وَالْمُنْخَنِقَةُ وَالْمَوْقُوذَةُ وَالْمُتَرَدِّيَةُ وَالنَّطِيحَةُ وَمَا أَكَلَ السَّبُعُ إِلاَّ مَا ذَكَّيْتُمْ وَمَا ذُبِحَ عَلَى النُّصُبِ وَأَنْ تَسْتَقْسِمُوا بِالأَزْلاَمِ ذَلِكُمْ فِسْق ٌ الْيَوْمَ يَئِسَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا مِنْ دِينِكُمْ فَلاَ تَخْشَوْهُمْ وَاخْشَوْنِي الْيَوْمَ أَكْمَلْتُ لَكُمْ دِينَكُمْ وَأَتْمَمْتُ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعْمَتِي وَرَضِيتُ لَكُمُ الإِسْلاَمَ دِينا ً فَمَنِ اضْطُرَّ فِي مَخْمَصَةٍ غَيْرَ مُتَجَانِف ٍ لإِثْم ٍ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُور ٌ رَحِيم
Forbidden to you (for food) are: Al-Maytatah (the dead animals - cattle-beast not slaughtered), blood, the flesh of swine, and the meat of that which has been slaughtered as a sacrifice for others than Allāh, or has been slaughtered for idols, etc., or on which Allāh's Name has not been mentioned while slaughtering, and that which has been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by the goring of horns - and that which has been (partly) eaten by a wild animal - unless you are able to slaughter it (before its death) and that which is sacrificed (slaughtered) on An Nusub (stone altars). (Forbidden) also is to use arrows seeking luck or decision, (all) that is Fisqun (disobedience of Allāh and sin). This day, those who disbelieved have given up all hope of your religion, so fear them not, but fear Me. This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islām as your religion. But as for him who is forced by severe hunger, with no inclination to sin (such can eat these above-mentioned meats), then surely, Allāh is Oft Forgiving, Most Merciful. (Al-Ma'idah 5:3)
so we See Allah chose Islam as a Religion for us
and Perfected This Religion ,when amir Al Mumineen Ali ibn abi Talib Was elected as the Successer of the Prophet Muhammad(SWS)at a pond named Ghadeer!
(The Above verse was Sent down in this Regard)
Neither did he mention mujtahids,or Re-interpretation(AKA Playing and Making a Mockery out of) of Our Religion.As if allah is bound to Time,and cultural changes of Human Beings!
Everything we need is in Quran and Sunna(handed down to us by Ahl ul-Bayt(a.s)) and ijtihad/Qiyas/Aql is a Bida(Innovation)and Every Innovattor will be Placed in Hell.
October 22, 2010 12:55 PM
zaida said...
Many people are turning away from religion because they are sick of hearing the arguments of people like Ali....by the way, he is Ismaili, everybody, not Zaidi, so please do not be put off by his comments. He even insults the Imam of the Ismailis (the Aga Khan, a respected Sayyed). Personally I think Allah wants us to respect the ahlul bait, particularly the leaders and intellectuals amongst them, whether no matter which math-hab they follow. I personally support them all and respect them and try to learn from their example.
October 23, 2010 9:10 PM
Ali said...
I Came on this blog,To Expect Something Different then Shiachat,when it comes Personal,and no Scholarly Discussions are presented.
i have not insulted the Agha khan
i have not insulted,Zaidis,Zaidism or sister Zaida,and in post''the history of zaidi revival in Sa'ada''i have let you know how i Admire your Works.
With regards to the Agha khan,his Grandfather was a Twelver Shi'a From Kirman,Iran. Now,Nizar ibn Al-Mustansir had no son,and there are Variouis Stories put into place,such as him doing Adultery with the Wife of a Da'i and thus the lineage was continued.and that a baby miracoulisly came into the Alamut and continued the Nizari lineage.
the fact is a Da'i named Agha-i Buzurg had claimed imamate at a later stage in his life and thus the Nizari imamate was Revived at a later date.
secondly,the Agha khan Beleives in Re-incarnation,Evolution(theres even a article on their site wich shows how their Ginans predicted Evoltuion before charles Darwin did!)and that he is the Maz-har of Allah(SWT),Tell me Zaida do you know what it means to call yourself a Maz-har of allah?
they also beleive'in ''''Wahdat Al-wujud''the idea that Allah Exists in Everything.the Tayyibi beelive in Wahdat Al-Mawjud,wich is scientifically Proven.
Secondly the idea of Evoltuion has been refuted:
'http://www.darwinismisso19thcentury.com/index.php www.evolutiondeceit.com/ -
The origins of superstitious religion of Darwinism
http://us1.harunyahya.com/Detail/T/EDCRFV/productId/13787
and Wahdat al-Wujud has been refuted:
http://www.harunyahya.com/matrix.php
in fact there is a Consensus of Sunni and Shi'a Muslims that This Beleif Equates Kufr.
Secondly,You or any Zaidi,NEVER answer my Questions about Imamate(Refer to post ''the history of zaidi revival in Sa'ada'''),until you do that then Do not complain of being sick of hearing arguments.
your sick of hearing them,because you cant Refute them.
how can your refute the quran?i have used only Quran.
i have Challenged the Propoganda behind Mutazili heritage of the Zaydis ,and that angers Mariam87
in fact the Ibadhis will laugh at you,for saying you have anything to do with the mutazilas!
http://www.uga.edu/islam/ibadis.html
http://www.angelfire.com/ok5/ibadhiyah/history.html
http://www.islamfact.com/books-htm/ibadi/content.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibadi
the title is Called''Huh? Morocco and Jordan send elite troops to assist humiliated Saudis in Yemen ''http://www.iraq-war.ru/article/212286
if you Respect your Massacrerers,then hey the laughs on you ,Not me !
this is exactly why the Zaydi imams had to Persecute our Community,because they couldnt Refute our Books,and sadly i feel the Zaydis still will continue with such Attitude.
October 24, 2010 6:56 AM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
In The Name of allah mostr Mercifull,most Beneficent!
May Allah Bless Muhammad and the Family of Muhammad!
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
وَدَّ كَثِير ٌ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْكِتَابِ لَوْ يَرُدُّونَكُمْ مِنْ بَعْدِ إِيمَانِكُمْ
كُفَّاراً حَسَدا ً مِنْ عِنْدِ أَنفُسِهِمْ مِنْ بَعْدِ مَا تَبَيَّنَ لَهُمُ الْحَقُّ فَاعْفُوا وَاصْفَحُوا حَتَّى يَأْتِيَ اللَّهُ بِأَمْرِهِ~ِ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْء ٍ قَدِير
(Interpretation of the Verse)
Many of the people of the Scripture wish that if they could turn you away as disbelievers after you have believed, out of envy from their ownselves, even, after the truth has become manifest unto them. But forgive and overlook, till Allāh brings His Command. Verily, Allāh is Able to do all things. (Al-Baqarah 2:109)
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يَشْتَرُونَ بِعَهْدِ اللَّهِ وَأَيْمَانِهِمْ ثَمَنا ً قَلِيلاً أُوْلَائِكَ لاَ خَلاَقَ لَهُمْ فِي الآخِرَةِ وَلاَ يُكَلِّمُهُمُ اللَّهُ وَلاَ يَنْظُرُ إِلَيْهِمْ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ وَلاَ يُزَكِّيهِمْ وَلَهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيم
(Interpretation of the verse)
Verily, those who purchase a small gain at the cost of Allāh's Covenant and their oaths, they shall have no portion in the Hereafter . Neither will Allāh speak to them, nor look at them on the Day of Resurrection, nor will He purify them, and they shall have a painful torment. (Aali Imran 3:77) بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
وَلَقَدِ اسْتُهْزِئَ بِرُسُل ٍ مِنْ قَبْلِكَ فَحَاقَ بِالَّذِينَ سَخِرُوا مِنْهُمْ مَا كَانُوا بِه ِِ يَسْتَهْزِئُون
(Interpretation of the Verse)
And indeed (many) Messengers were mocked before you, but their scoffers were surrounded by the very thing that they used to mock at. (Al-An'am 6:10)
Just because people Mock our Religion,Does this mean we stop our Religion?
just because people mocked these prophets,did it keep them from Giving their Message?
Just because people Mock Matam,do we Stop Matam?
Secondly,Tell me Zaida,And Maryam86 ,You Support Re-interpretation of islam.
but 2 Questions:
1.Can you prove from any Hadith of the Prophet muhammad or his Ahl ul-Bayt(a.s)that Ijtihad/Aql/Qiyas are not Innovations and were present during the time of our Prophet(sws)as a Legitimate form of Determining Islamic Law.
if not it is a Bida.i know sunnis make a Difference between so-called ''good Bida''and Bad Bida''but a Bida is a Bida,and the Prophet did not Distinguish between the Two.
2.Alot of young people want to do Muta,Can we Re-interpret the Verses of the Quran to Allow Muta?and maybe change muta for 4 witnesses and a Permission of Wali,to make it Halal?
and or can we just Interpret the Verses of 4 witnesses as being Metaphorical,and the permission of the Wali as Metaphorical.
since''that doesnt fit in in our Culture and age where young people want to do such Things,since the shar'ia is Outdated according to you''
and ''since 1000s of Sayyed Mujtahids support Muta,and we should Respect their Re-evaluation of the said Verses''
Now you can see how Pick and Choose you are being!
Thirdly,i have never insulted anyone,but both Mariam87 and Zaida have insulted me.
but no,it only goes one way around.
Finally,If a munafiq wants to turn away form religion,He will be Killed,and the Hadd will be applied on him/Her.
October 24, 2010 7:48 AM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
In The Name of allah most Mercifull,most Beneficent!
May Allah Bless Muhammad and the Family of Muhammad!
for every person that is turned off by religion,there are 20 people that come to the religion of allah ,Well-Accepting Towards Allah,and Allah Being-Well Accepting Towards them.
I Personally Beleive allah distinguishes between the Munafiqs and the Mukhlisin by who will Be muslims(I.e. Submit to him Entirely no ifs,and butts)and those who take a part of religion what they like.
'''If you want to show progress like the Mutazilla did in the past then you have to prove it. Creating Ahlul Bayt vs Sahaba, mourning for the Ahlul Bayt will make you no different than the 12rs''
man,the Zaydis dont Mourn Ahl ul-bayt?
Matam is one of the most important Religiouis Actions ever granted to mankind,and now the ''progressives'''want to further their Nasb and attack the Ahl ul-Bayt(a.s)?
the Ithna Ashari's have a word for people that pretend to love ahl ul-bayt but are in fact their enemies ,they are called ''Muqassir''.
they are worse then the Nasibi's
i came on this site thinking Zaydis were more closer to The Commander of the Faithfull ali(a.s) then Ithna Ashari's,But i guess i am Wrong!
Zaida,You will not affect the Zaydi muslims,from Fighting the jihad,and being Good muslims.
We have come in a age where we have islam only how people want it,where islam becomes a thing for personal pleasure.
Ali Dealt very Harshly with the Zanadiqa(Heretics),and by Allah,Ali had burned those accused of Zindiqa With fire.
how do you think ali will deal with you,if you are fititng in the criteria of Zindiqa?
Be carefull not to fall into Zindiqa,because you are not a Scholar nor have you studied all the books wich arent nccassery to Understand the Deen of allah in a Correct way.
and May Allah bless All the muslims and lead us further to Unite on his quran and his Prophet's Sunna.
(Unification of different Sects does not mean we Change our Aqa'id rather it means ,We Respect each others Viewpoints and do not attack others for those Viewpoints)
October 24, 2010 7:53 AM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
In The Name of allah most Mercifull,most Beneficent!
May Allah Bless Muhammad and the Family of Muhammad!
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
وَقَرْنَ فِي بُيُوتِكُنَّ وَلاَ تَبَرَّجْنَ تَبَرُّجَ الْجَاهِلِيَّةِ الأُولَى ۖ وَأَقِمْنَ الصَّلاَةَ وَآتِينَ الزَّكَاةَ وَأَطِعْنَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ~ُ ۚ إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ لِيُذْهِبَ عَنْكُمُ الرِّجْسَ أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ وَيُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِيرا
(Surah al-Ahzab Ayat 33 I.e. Quran 33.33] And stay in your houses and do not display your finery like the displaying of the ignorance of yore; and keep up prayer, and pay the poor-rate, and obey Allah and His Apostle. Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O people of the House! and to purify you a (thorough) purifying.
(now it says ´´Keep Away´´not ´´Remove´´(Kharaj)meaning Ahl ul-bayt Never had any rijs in the First Place.
Now One Can Claim That This Refers to The Prophets Wives ,however The Change of Gender From ´´KUn´´
To ´´Kum´´Shows The Latter Part is Refering to Males.
in Fact the Ahl Al-Kisa Who are
1.Ali
2.Fatima Al-zahra
3.Hasan Ibn Ali
4.Husayn Ibn Ali
this is Proven From the Hadith of the Cloak http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith_of_The_Cloak
Now the Words 'Innamā Yurīdu Al-Lahu Liyudh/hiba `Ankumu Ar-Rijsa 'Ahla Al-Bayti Wa Yuţahhirakum Taţhīrāan
al-Rijs(الرِّجْسَ) means ALL IMPURITY ,bad Thoughts,Bad Deeds,and Bad Intentions.
further more The words Yuţahhirakum Taţhīrāan (i.e. يُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِيرا)Means to Perfectly Purify.
So there is no room to claim people with bad intentions,sinfullness,and any type of Non-Infallible nature of all human beings to be Refered to as Ahl ul-Bayt(a.s).
they are Hashemites,but they are not Ahl ul-Bayt(a.s).
they are Aali muhammad(the Family of Muhammad)but they are not Ahl ul-Bayt(a.s)
i am well aware that there is a Verse where Ibrahim adresses his wife as Ahl ul-Bayt(a.s)but the misuse of Salafi's(and i know you agree with this Interpretation) in this Regard is Easily Refutable.
Firstly the Salafi(and You) will Say :
surah al-Maida, verse 6:
مَا يُرِيدُ اللّهُ لِيَجْعَلَ عَلَيْكُم مِّنْ حَرَجٍ وَلَـكِن يُرِيدُ لِيُطَهَّرَكُمْ وَلِيُتِمَّ نِعْمَتَهُ عَلَيْكُمْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَشْكُرُونَ
Mā Yurīdu Al-Lahu Liyaj`ala `Alaykum Min Ĥarajin Wa LakinYurīdu LiyuţahhirakumWaliyutimma Ni`matahu `Alaykum
Allah does not desire to put on you any difficulty, but He wishes to purify you and that He may complete His favor on you, so that you may be grateful.
since it refers to the ummah,and the ummah is not infallible(well according to Fakhrudeen Al-Razi it is!),therefore Ahl ul-Bayt(a.s)are not Infallible.
firstly the latter Verse said :''Liyuţahhirakum''(لِيُطَهَّرَكُمْ)and did not Mention '' تَطْهِير''the word ' تَطْهِيرا Wich would Imply Perfect Purification.
Secondly the ummah has sinned,whereas the former Verse Says nothing about removing (Takhrijan)the impurity from ahl ul-Bayt(a.s),it rather says Keep away(Tahdhiban).
Kharaj(remove)is not used in the Verse,Even though the sunni Translations State such Things.
October 24, 2010 8:41 AM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
In The Name of allah most Mercifull,most Beneficent!
May Allah Bless Muhammad and the Family of Muhammad!
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
the Second Argument is:
verse 11 of surah al-Anfal, Allah said:
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
إِذْ يُغَشِّيكُمُ النُّعَاسَ أَمَنَةً مِّنْهُ وَيُنَزِّلُ عَلَيْكُم مِّن السَّمَاء مَاء لِّيُطَهِّرَكُم بِهِ وَيُذْهِبَ عَنكُمْ رِجْزَ الشَّيْطَانِ وَلِيَرْبِطَ عَلَى قُلُوبِكُمْ وَيُثَبِّتَ بِهِ الأَقْدَامَ
‘Idh Yughashshīkumu An-Nu`āsa ‘Amanatan Minhu Wa Yunazzilu `Alaykum Mina As-Samā’i Mā’anLiyuţahhirakum Bihi Wa Yudh/hiba `Ankum Rijza Ash-Shayţāni Wa Liyarbiţa `Alá Qulūbikum Wa Yuthabbita Bihi Al-’Aqdāma
When He caused calm to fall on you as a security from Him and sent down upon you water from the cloud that He might thereby purify you, and take away from you the uncleanness of the Shaitan, and that He might fortify your hearts and steady (your) footsteps thereby.
the translation is incorrect as Yud-hiba means Keep away and not Remove,Kharaj means Remove Yukhrij(he takes away)Khawarij(those who are removed),and allah is saying he wants to keep away the Uncleanliness of Shaytan.
the difference between this verse and the other is Still''تَطْهِيرا''wich implies perfect Purification.this word is not used in these verses with regard to the Word Tathirakum..
Regarding the wives and the Verse regarding Ibrahim's Family,I can provide a Explanation to this.
and Prove your Calling the Awam al-Momineen(Radhiyallahu anhunna)(mothers of the Beleivers),and your Zaydi imams Ahl ul-Bayt(a.s) is totally Flawed!
October 24, 2010 8:59 AM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
In The Name of allah most Mercifull,most Beneficent!
May Allah Bless Muhammad and the Family of Muhammad!
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
يَاأَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ قُلْ لِأزْوَاجِكَ إِنْ كُنْتُنَّ تُرِدْنَ الْحَيَاةَ الدُّنْيَا وَزِينَتَهَا فَتَعَالَيْنَ أُمَتِّعْكُنَّ وَأُسَرِّحْكُنَّ سَرَاحا ً جَمِيلا
O Prophet ! Say to your wives: If you desire the life of this world, and its glitter, Then come! I will make a provision for you and set you free in a handsome manner . (Al-Ahzab 33:28)
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
وَإِنْ كُنْتُنَّ تُرِدْنَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَه ُُ وَالدَّارَ الآخِرَةَ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ أَعَدَّ لِلْمُحْسِنَاتِ مِنْكُنَّ أَجْراً عَظِيما
But if you desire Allāh and His Messenger, and the home of the Hereafter, then verily, Allāh has prepared for Al Muhsināt (good doers) amongst you an enormous reward. (Al-Ahzab 33:29)
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
يَانِسَاءَ النَّبِيِّ مَنْ يَأْتِ مِنْكُنَّ بِفَاحِشَة ٍ مُبَيِّنَة ٍ يُضَاعَفْ لَهَا الْعَذَابُ ضِعْفَيْنِ وَكَانَ ذَلِكَ عَلَى اللَّهِ يَسِيرا
O wives of the Prophet! Whoever of you commits an open illegal sexual intercourse, the torment for her will be doubled, and that is ever easy for Allāh. (Al-Ahzab 33:30)
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
وَمَنْ يَقْنُتْ مِنْكُنَّ لِلَّهِ وَرَسُولِه ِِ وَتَعْمَلْ صَالِحا ً نُؤْتِهَا أَجْرَهَا مَرَّتَيْنِ وَأَعْتَدْنَا لَهَا رِزْقا ً كَرِيما
And whosoever of you is obedient to Allāh and His Messenger , and does righteous good deeds, We shall give her, her reward twice over, and We have prepared for her Rizqan Karima (a noble provision Paradise). (Al-Ahzab 33:31)
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
يَانِسَاءَ النَّبِيِّ لَسْتُنَّ كَأَحَد ٍ مِنَ النِسَاء إِنِ اتَّقَيْتُنَّ فَلاَ تَخْضَعْنَ بِالْقَوْلِ فَيَطْمَعَ الَّذِي فِي قَلْبِه ِِ مَرَض ٌ وَقُلْنَ قَوْلا ً مَعْرُوفا
O wives of the Prophet! You are not like any other women. If you keep your duty (to Allāh), then be not soft in speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease (of hypocrisy, or evil desire for adultery, etc.) should be moved with desire, but speak in an honourable manner. (Al-Ahzab 33:32)
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
وَقَرْنَ فِي بُيُوتِكُنَّ وَلاَ تَبَرَّجْنَ تَبَرُّجَ الْجَاهِلِيَّةِ الأُولَى وَأَقِمْنَ الصَّلاَةَ وَآتِينَ الزَّكَاةَ وَأَطِعْنَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ~ُ إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ لِيُذْهِبَ عَنْكُمُ الرِّجْسَ أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ وَيُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِيرا
And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance, and perform As-Salāt (Iqamāt as Salāt), and give Zakāt and obey Allāh and His Messenger. Allāh wishes only to remove Ar Rijs (evil deeds and sins, etc.) from you, O members of the family (of the Prophet SAW), and to purify you with a thorough purification. (Al-Ahzab 33:33)
Now,this would Contradict the Verse,because,Allah says to the wives the Messsenger may divorce them.and it warns them off sins.this would be unneccassery if they had been Purified from all sins.
And the Messenger of Allah Divorced A'isha the first divorce(Talaqtuki)when She had divulged his Secret Concerning Mariya al-Kibtiya(Radhiyallahu anha)(according to Isma'ili Tafsir,im aware there are Different Tafasir on this Verse)
furthermore even if we accept ibrahim called his wife ahl ul-bayt,nowhere was his ahl ul-bayt perfectly purified .
whereas Muhammad's Ahl ul-bayt was purified.
so even this Point would exclude the wives from Muhammads Ahl ul-bayt,even if Wives Generally are Ahl ul-bayt for other prophets(a.s)and Messengers(a.s).
October 24, 2010 9:02 AM
Ali said...
salaam zaida,how is my ideas tooken from the Salafis?
isma'ilis have always rejected ijtihad and re-interpretation of the deen,theyve always waged jihad and created a empire,and theyve always implemented shari'a very seriously.
seeing that salafism is a invention from the 18th century it is more likely they copied from us!
also if a muslim,who follows quran and sunnah is a ''salafi''then all muslims in the world will be ''salafi'because they reject your interpretation of revisionizing the deen of allah.
Ismaili/Zaidi discussion
Zabarah said...
brother Ali,
my Refutation to all your statements will come inshallah.
but just a question for now. who is you infallable imam today?
we are always glad to see people with varying opinions to evaluate our own.
if you are arabic speaker then show your evidence with the zaidies scholars in www.almajalis.org. like the 12rs have.
October 24, 2010 9:32 AM
zabarah said...
sorry i just saw your messages and and i cant write the replies right now. give me a day or so. I am glad to discuss such issues, ismailies in yemen dont even say they are ismili even when asked.
October 24, 2010 10:30 AM
Zabarah said...
Salam,i am a Isma'ili ,We dont Number the imams At all!
this is Common Beleif!
[Sorry about this. It is wrong to take info from other sects.]
These Are our Awsiya:
Adam:Set
nuh-Sem
Ibrahim-Isma'il
Musa -Harun
Isa-simun As-Safa(Isa is Dead in Isma'ili Beleif) [so do we. Most zaidies believe he is dead]
Muhammad-Ali
these Are our imams(a.s):
Hasan
husayn
ali ibn husayn
Muhamamd ibn ali
Jafar Bin muhammad
(after him Came the Period of Satr or Secret Mission) [Why? What is different that the mission became secret??]
Isma'il ibn Jafar
Musa Al-Kazim(Not a Real imam(Mustaqqar imam) but a Mustawda imam to Protect The Identity of muhammmad Ibn Isma'il)
Muhamamad ibn Isma'il
Abdullah ibn Muhammad Al-Mastoor
Ahmed Ibn Abdullah al-Mastoor
Husayn Ibn al-Ahmad al-Mastoor
al-Mahdi Billah
al-Qa'im billah
al-Mansoor billah
Al-Mu'iz Li dinallah(under his rule Egypt and Syria is conquered)
Al-Aziz Billah
Abu ‘Ali Mansur Tāriqu l-Ḥākim(under his Reign southern France,Southern Italy,Allepo is conquered)
Imam Zahir(under his Reign Masjid al-Aqsa is built)
Imam mustansir billah
Imam musta'ali Billah
Imam al-amir bi Ahkam Allah
Imam Tayyib ibn amir(Went into Hiding)
abnd After him the list of Imams Continues and as Imam Tayyib Ibn Tayyib
The Awaited One is Qa'im al-Qiyamah.
Who Is your Imam now?
and Unlike Twelvers We Beleive the Imams Die.
and the Da'i of Najran is the Head of the Ummah.
[Who is your Imam. The Dai is not Imam is he? who appointed him?]
Regarding the Isma'ili Imamah it is a Neccassery Perequisite for a Masoom and Chosen with Nass.
[Where is your Current Imam and if you are following an Imam now. Are you saying that he is masom completely from any error! Where is this proof why doesn’t he show himself to prove his words and actions are completely error free .
There is only proof that ismah is only for five the prophet Fatimah, Ali, Hassan, and Hussain. The people of the cloak.
“ انما يريد الله ان يذهب عنكم الرجس اهل البيت ويطهركم تطهيرا”
Even then the Isma is not from everything but only from the kabaer and the proof is Imam Ali Duaa
((اللهم اغفرلي ما أنت أعلم به مني، فإن عدت فعد لي بالمغفرة. اللهم اغفر لي ما وأيت من نفسي، ولم تجد له وفاء عندي. اللهم اغفر لي ما تقربت به إليك بلساني، ثم خالفه قلبي. اللهم اغفر لي رمزات الألحاظ، وسقطات الألفاظ ، وشهوات الجنان، وهفوات اللسان))
This proves Imam ali does not have Isma from the small things. If he did, then tell me why he is asking forgiveness from these small things
It is Not a Thing of shura or the choice of Men.
The Prophet mohamad and the Quran have not named Imams by name. They only stated that they are from ahlul bayt . like the hadith of safinat alnajah, the hadith of alnjuum, and ayat altataheer, and ayah almawadah. These are proof of the Place of ahllul bayt. The ayah of the the three levels of ahlul bayt shows how the bad of ahlul bay are thaleem, the gassed of ahlulbayt are the ones who are pious and learned and the third are the sabugun lilkharat who call the people to the sake of allah and fight the oppressors( these are the Imams)
((ثُمَّ أَوْرَثْنَا الْكِتَابَ الَّذِينَ اصْطَفَيْنَا مِنْ عِبَادِنَا فَمِنْهُمْ ظَالِمٌ لِنَفْسِهِ وَمِنْهُمْ مُقْتَصِدٌ وَمِنْهُمْ سَابِقٌ بِالْخَيْرَاتِ بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ ذَلِكَ هُوَ الْفَضْلُ الْكَبِيرُ))
]
No Prophet of allah has Chosen their Wasi in This Manner. [Yes Imam Ali, Hassan, and hussain were named by allah
and did not state anythng more than stating after them are the children of their loans]
but the Bani Israa'il did Follow al-Samiri Based on shura .
The Wasi or Natiq is Brought with Every Rasool (Messenger) of allah in 7 Stages. [ And how is a wasi brought in 7 stages?? Imam Ali is 1/7th of an Imam? Where is your proof?]
there Were 7 Prophets and Seven WAsi's. [There were lots, the Quran is full of prophets]
the number 7 is Very Important in Our Theology.
October 24, 2010 10:58 PM
Zabarah said...
The Job of the Prophet is to Give the Zahiri PArt of din Adam al-Awaal(the Religion of Adam and the angels Before the Fall)and The Islamic Shari'ah.
[The prophet gave us all of the deen Allahs deen as the quran and the prophet said today I have completed your religion for you and completed my blessing on you and accept islam as a religion for you. To say that the prophet gave us half a religion is odd to say
اليوم أكملت لكم دينكم وأتممت عليكم نعمتي ورضيت لكم الاسلام دين
]
the job of the Natiq is to give the Taw'il of The din Adam al-Awaal
and the islamic shari'ah. [Imam ali was taught by the prophet since he was young that is why he has this knowledge. There is no supernatural with Imam ali. And so happened to their sons and so on. Here is the proof that Imam ali learned from the prophet and did not do anything more or different than what the prophet taught him
“ما دخل رأسي نوم ولا عهد إلى رسول الله حتى علمت من رسول الله ما نزله به جبريل من حلال أو حرام أو سنة أو أمر أو نهي فيما نزل فيه ، وفيمن نزل “
]
the Isma'ili Imamah is something wich is the Wajhatallah(The direction Of allah)and the NoorAllah(the Light of allah)The Mystical wisdom and Ismah (Infallibilty )is Present within the imam. [Is he Here? does he command you what is haram and what is halal?]
Walayah Are among the Seven Pillars of Faith and Walayah is Love for the Prophet the Wasi the imam and the Da'i . [as with all sects. whatever that naming be]
externally the Imam is a pure personality and internally a light. [I am assuming metaphors? And who is your Imam now?]
Externally, the Qur'an is the holy Book and internally (in the Imam) it is a light. [I am assuming metaphors?]
This shows that externally Ali and the Qur'ân are separate from each other, but internally they are not only together, they are one light.
Ali and the Imams After him Are therefore Called al-quran al-Natiq(The Speaking quran)
While ali Amir ul-Mumineen Described the book of allah as the quran Al-Samit(silent quran)
[Yes Imam ali is the Quran NAtiq that’s because he has it memorized and knows the tafseer that the prophet has taught him.
They both share the truth. But the question is: who at this age has learned the quran and its tafseer well to lead humanity to safety?]
October 24, 2010 11:15 PM
Zabarah said...
THE QURAN:
Amir al-Mu'minin, Ali ibn Abi Talib (SA) says:
"The Qur'an is a light whose lamp cannot be extinguished, an ocean whose depth cannot be fathomed, a path which never leads astray, a criterion whose validity is irrefutable, a cure that banishes the fear of illness, a spring of knowledge and also its ocean, the trivet of Islam and its foundation, quenches the thirst of the scholar, a clear path of the virtuous." [Yes we know how important the Quran is. Therefore we choose who we follow based on the quran I will comment further in the end of this post]
and Imam ahmed al-Mastoor(A.S)Says in Ikhwan al-Safa : Just as the human form is the last phase of the development of living being, so the Arabic language is the perfection of all languages and its script the perfection of calligraphy."
so what The quran is the Imam Is.
You can never assume anyone will follow a person now if 1) the person is not mentioned directly in the quran 2) the person is not mentioned in the hadith that is 100% valid 3) they did not call to them self and taught people and showed how pious and noble that person is and show that they are a person that is aligned with the quran.
The proof that we should follow ahlul bayt is there 100%. Then the Quran speaks about which of ahlulbayt to follow. No names but traits!
لا يستوي القاعدون مِن المؤمنين غير أولي الضرر"
"والمجاهدون في سبيل الله بأموالهم وأنفسهم
"فضل الله المجهدين بأموالهم وأنفسهم على القاعدين درجة وكلا وعد الله الحسنى وفضل الله المجاهدين على "القاعدين أجراً عظيماً
" أم حسبتم أن تدخلوا الجنة ولما يعلم الله الذين جهدوا منكم ويعلم الصابرين"
" إن الله اشترى من المؤمنين أنفسهم وأموالهم بأن لهم الجنة يقتلون في سبيل الله فيقتلون ويقتلون وعداً عليه حقاً في التوراة والإنجيل والقرءان ومن أوفى بعهده من الله "
Allah has preferred the Mujahdeen with their money and themselves more than the ones who are sitting. And this ayah to prove that there is no tugyah and no reason for you to be quiet and let evildoers stay evil and also call people to turn to the truth!
" ألا تقاتلون قوما نكثوا أيمانهم وهموا بإخراج الرسول وهم بدءوكم أول مرة أتخشونهم فالله أحق أن تخشوه إن كنتم مؤمنين قتلوهم يعذبهم الله بأيديكم ويخزهم وينصركم عليهم ويشف صدور قوم مؤمنين "
“ومن أحسن قولا ممن دعا إلى الله، وعمل صالحاً وقال إنني من المسلمين”
“ادع إلى سبيل ربك بالحكمة والموعظة الحسنة وجادلهم بالتي هي أحسن إن ربك هو أعلم بمن ضلّ عن سبيله وهو أعلم بالمهتدين”
Sorry I didn’t translate I didn’t have lots of time. and sorry for the messy hand writing. you have many posts so I will go through them as I have time]
October 24, 2010 11:16 PM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
Brother Zabarah,
Zaydis do allow Taqiyah:
Interpretation: it is permissible to eat Haram food or Consume Sarabah(Wine) Under the state of Taqiyyah
:جواز التقية في حكم الاَطعمة والاَشربة المحرمة
Zaydi Reference: Bahr al Zakhaar Vol.6, P.100, by Imam of Zaydis Ahmed ibn Yahya ibn al Murtada
No Woman May Attain Punishment When Commiting fornication Under Taqiyah
وأما لو استكرهت المرأة على الزنا ، فلا حدّ عليها ، قولاً واحداً
Zaydi Reference: Bahr al Zakhaar Vol.6, P.100, by Imam of Zaydis Ahmed ibn Yahya ibn al Murtada
Taking the Maal of another Person is Permissable Under Taqiyah:وأطلق الاِمام الزيدي أحمد بن يحيى بن المرتضى القول باباحة مال الغير بشرط الضمان في حال التقية
Zaydi Reference: Bahr al Zakhaar Vol.6, P.100, by Imam of Zaydis Ahmed ibn Yahya ibn al Murtada
However,zaydism today has Nothing to do with Zayd(R.A)or Ahl Ul-Bayt,and is basically sunnism wth some Shi'a Attributtes.
and the quran allows Taqiyah:
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
لاَ يَتَّخِذِ الْمُؤْمِنُونَ الْكَافِرِينَ أَوْلِيَاءَ مِنْ دُونِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَمَنْ يَفْعَلْ ذَلِكَ فَلَيْسَ مِنَ اللَّهِ فِي شَيْء ٍ إِلاَّ أَنْ تَتَّقُوا مِنْهُمْ تُقَاة ً وَيُحَذِّرُكُمُ اللَّهُ نَفْسَه ُُ وَإِلَى اللَّهِ الْمَصِير
Let not the believers take the disbelievers as Auliyā (supporters, helpers, etc.) instead of the believers, and whoever does that will never be helped by Allāh in any way, except if you indeed fear a danger from them. And Allāh warns you against Himself (His Punishment), and to Allāh is the final return. (Aali Imran 3:28)بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
وَقَالَ رَجُل ٌ مُؤْمِن ٌ مِنْ آلِ فِرْعَوْنَ يَكْتُمُ إِيمَانَهُ~ُ أَتَقْتُلُونَ رَجُلاً أَنْ يَقُولَ رَبِّيَ اللَّهُ وَقَدْ جَاءَكُمْ بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ مِنْ رَبِّكُمْ وَإِنْ يَكُ كَاذِبا ً فَعَلَيْهِ كَذِبُه ُُ وَإِنْ يَكُ صَادِقا ً يُصِبْكُمْ بَعْضُ الَّذِي يَعِدُكُمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ لاَ يَهْدِي مَنْ هُوَ مُسْرِف ٌ كَذَّاب And a believing man of Fir'aun's (Pharaoh) family, who hid his faith said: "Would you kill a man because he says: My Lord is Allāh, and he has come to you with clear signs (proofs) from your Lord? And if he is a liar, upon him will be (the sin of) his lie; but if he is telling the truth, then some of that (calamity) wherewith he threatens you will befall on you." Verily, Allāh guides not one who is a Musrif (a polytheist, or a murderer who shed blood without a right, or those who commit great sins, oppressor, transgressor), a liar! (Ghafir 40:28)بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
وَكَذَلِكَ بَعَثْنَاهُمْ لِيَتَسَاءَلُوا بَيْنَهُمْ قَالَ قَائِل ٌ مِنْهُمْ كَمْ لَبِثْتُمْ قَالُوا لَبِثْنَا يَوْماً أَوْ بَعْضَ يَوْم ٍ قَالُوا رَبُّكُمْ أَعْلَمُ بِمَا لَبِثْتُمْ فَابْعَثُوا أَحَدَكُمْ بِوَرِقِكُمْ هَذِهِ~ِ إِلَى الْمَدِينَةِ فَلْيَنظُرْ أَيُّهَا أَزْكَى طَعَاما ً فَلْيَأْتِكُمْ بِرِزْق ٍ مِنْهُ وَلْيَتَلَطَّفْ وَلاَ يُشْعِرَنَّ بِكُمْ أَحَدا
Likewise, We awakened them (from their long deep sleep) that they might question one another. A speaker from among them said: "How long have you stayed (here)?" They said: "We have stayed (perhaps) a day or part of a day." They said: "Your Lord (Alone) knows best how long you have stayed (here). So send one of you with this silver coin of yours to the town, and let him find out which is the good lawful food, and bring some of that to you. And let him be careful and let no man know of you. (Al-Kahf 18:19)
October 25, 2010 6:53 AM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
Secondly,When Ammar ibn Yassir was Confronted by the Opressive rulers of the Quraish,he PErformed Taqiyah,he did not fight jihad ,he performed Taqiyah.the same for the man and Fir'awn.
the Verseabout;'''
Allah has preferred the Mujahdeen with their money and themselves more than the ones who are sitting.''is True,Jihad is a Pilalr of islam,Taqiyah isnt.However Imam Hassan(a.s)is Still higher then Imam Husayn(a.s),even though the Later did Jihad.the proof of this is in the Last speech of Ali(a.s),and The verse nowhere says taqiyah is not permitted against a Fascist dictator,if it says that plz show the wording to me.we agree ther mujahid is ''Prefered'' over the non-mujahid.and you will find most of our Imams were hardcore Mujahids.
and thesunis agree with this point.
التقية جائزة لصون النفس ، وهل هي جائزة لصون المال يحتمل أن يحكم فيها بالجواز
Taqiyyah is permissible for self protection, but is it permissible for the protection of wealth? It probably is permissible. Tafseer Kabeer, Volume 4 page 170 by Fakhrudeen Razi
After recording the statement of Hasan Basri, Fakhruddin al-Razi records:
عن الحسن : أنه قال التقية جائزة للمؤمنين إلى يوم القيامة ، وهذا القول أولى ، لأن دفع الضرر عن النفس واجب بقدر الإمكان .
“Taqiyyah is permissible until the day of Qayamah and this statement is better because it is Wajib to protect our life from any harm”
Tafseer Kabeer, Volume 4 page 170 Hasan al-Basri 's Status within sunni circles is Well-known to any sunni.
al-Nasa'ih al-Kaafiyah page 109, Sunni scholar Muhammad bin Aqeel Shaafi writes:
I say our scholars (Scholars of Ahle Sunnah) agree on the fact that when needed, telling a lie is allowed, and this is Taqiyyah. But if we name this Taqiyyah, a lot of the scholars raise an objection, since the Shi'a use this term. So the difference between Shi'a and Sunni is only a word difference.
Ibn Hayan Andalusi in his famed commentary(i.e Tafsir) of Holy Quran records:
وقال أصحاب أبي حنيفة التقية رخصة من الله تعالى
The companions of Abu Hanifa said: ‘Taqiyyah has been made lawful by Allah Almighty’
Al-Bahr al-Muheet, Volume 2 page 443 Abu hanifa,his status is Well-known among sunni circles
Salafi/Wahabi kingIbn Qayim al-Jawziyah also stated:
إذا خافوا من شرهم فأباح لهم التقية
“If they fear oppression, it is permissible for them to practice Taqiyyah”
Badae al-Fawaed, Volume 3 page 575 Ibn al-Qayim's status is Well-Known among Salafis and he is a Ultimate authority for them.
what about the Opinion of Hassan bin Hassan bin Imam Hassan bin Ali bin Abi Talib(a.s)
حدثنا وكيع عن فضيل بن مرزوق عن الحسن بن الحسن قال إنما التقية رخصة
Wakee narrated from Fudail bin Marzouq from al-Hassan bin al-Hassan who said: ‘Taqyia is lawful’
Wakee bin al-Jarah: Ibn Hajar said: ‘Thiqah’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v2 p283). Fudail bin Marzouq: Ibn Hajar said: ‘Seduq’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v2 p15).
unni Shaykh Ishaq bin Ibrahim al-Shashi Usul Al-Shashi, Chapter "Al Adheema" page 114 (published in Delhi, 1310 H):
"It is permissible to swear at Rasulullah (s) when one is under duress and to recite the Kalima of Kufr in the fear of loosing property or of getting murdered provided that the heart is at comfort."[ this book is STILL read as a curriculum in deobandi Schools.
Abdul Kareem Shahrastani in his famous text ‘al Mihal wa al Nahal’ Volume 1 page 122, whilst setting out the views of the Khawarij, states:
والسادسة: ان التقية غير جائزة في قول ولا عمل
"The sixth characteristic of the Khawarij is that they consider the act of Taqiyyah to be unlawful either verbally or practically".
However the Ibadhi today consider Taqiyah Lawfull ,just not agianst a Opressive ruler.the zaydis borrowed many ideas from the Ibadhiya(as they ruled n yemen ,and were the majority in Hadhramaut)incluing their ''alleged Mutazilism'!
October 25, 2010 7:11 AM
Anonymous said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
cocnerning the imamate :
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
وَإِذْ ابْتَلَى إِبْرَاهِيمَ رَبُّه ُُ بِكَلِمَات ٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ قَالَ إِنِّي جَاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِمَاما ً قَالَ وَمِنْ ذُرِّيَّتِي قَالَ لاَ يَنَالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ
And (remember) when the Lord of Ibrāhim (Abraham) [i.e., Allāh] tried him with (certain) Commands, which he fulfilled. He (Allāh) said (to him), "Verily, I am going to make you a leader (Prophet) of mankind." [Ibrāhim (Abraham)] said, "And of my offspring (to make leaders)." (Allāh) said, "My Covenant (Prophethood, etc.) includes not Zālimûn (polytheists and wrong-doers)." (Al-Baqarah 2:124)
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
وَجَعَلْنَاهُمْ أَئِمَّة ً يَهْدُونَ بِأَمْرِنَا وَأَوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْهِمْ فِعْلَ الْخَيْرَاتِ وَإِقَامَ الصَّلاَةِ وَإِيتَاءَ الزَّكَاةِ وَكَانُوا لَنَا عَابِدِينَ
And We made them leaders, guiding (mankind) by Our Command, and We inspired in them the doing of good deeds, performing Salāt (Iqāmat-as-Salāt), and the giving of Zakāt and of Us (Alone) they were worshippers. (Al-Anbiya 21:73)
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
وَجَعَلْنَا مِنْهُمْ أَئِمَّة ً يَهْدُونَ بِأَمْرِنَا لَمَّا صَبَرُوا وَكَانُوا بِآيَاتِنَا يُوقِنُونَ
And We made from among them (Children of Israel), leaders, giving guidance under Our Command, when they were patient and used to believe with certainty in Our Ayāt (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.). (As-Sajdah 32:24)
and all Verses regarding the imamate Mention Allah making them Imams and no Election or ''Earning imamate''
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
لاَ يَمَسُّهُ~ُ إِلاَّ الْمُطَهَّرُونَ
Which none can touch but the purified . (Al-Waqi'ah 56:79)
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
هُوَ الَّذِي أَنْزَلَ عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ مِنْهُ آيَات ٌ مُحْكَمَاتٌ هُنَّ أُمُّ الْكِتَابِ وَأُخَرُ مُتَشَابِهَات ٌ فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ فِي قُلُوبِهِمْ زَيْغ ٌ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ مَا تَشَابَه ََ مِنْهُ ابْتِغَاءَ الْفِتْنَةِ وَابْتِغَاءَ تَأْوِيلِه ِِ وَمَا يَعْلَمُ تَأْوِيلَهُ~ُ إِلاَّ اللَّهُ وَالرَّاسِخُونَ فِي الْعِلْمِ يَقُولُونَ آمَنَّا بِه ِِ كُلّ ٌ مِنْ عِنْدِ رَبِّنَا وَمَا يَذَّكَّرُ إِلاَّ أُوْلُوا الأَلْبَاب
He is the One Who has revealed to you the Book. Some of its verses are decisive - they are the foundation of the Book - while others are allegorical. Those whose hearts are infected with disbelief follow the allegorical part to mislead others and to give it their own interpretation, seeking for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah and Those who are well grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in it; it is all from our Rabb." None will take heed except the people of understanding.[3.7]
October 25, 2010 7:45 AM
Anonymous said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا قَبْلَكَ إِلاَّ رِجَالا ً نُوحِي إِلَيْهِمْ فَاسْأَلُوا أَهْلَ الذِّكْرِ إِنْ كُنتُمْ لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ
And We sent not before you but men to whom We inspired, so ask the people of the Reminder , if you do not know. (Al-Anbiya 21:7)
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِنْ قَبْلِكَ إِلاَّ رِجَالا ً نُوحِي إِلَيْهِمْ فَاسْأَلُوا أَهْلَ الذِّكْرِ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ
And We sent not before you any but men, whom We inspired, . So ask of the People of The Reminder , if you know not. (An-Nahl 16:43)
Know who is this Ahl of the Reminder?
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
أَعَدَّ اللَّهُ لَهُمْ عَذَابا ً شَدِيدا ً فَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ يَا أُوْلِي الأَلْبَابِ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا قَدْ أَنزَلَ اللَّهُ إِلَيْكُمْ ذِكْرا
Allāh has prepared for them a severe torment. So fear Allāh and keep your duty to Him, O men of understanding who have believed! - Allāh has indeed sent down to you a Reminder . (At-Talaq 65:10)بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
رَسُولا ً يَتْلُو عَلَيْكُمْ آيَاتِ اللَّهِ مُبَيِّنَات ٍ لِيُخْرِجَ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ مِنَ الظُّلُمَاتِ إِلَى النُّورِ وَمَنْ يُؤْمِنْ بِاللَّهِ وَيَعْمَلْ صَالِحا ً يُدْخِلْهُ جَنَّات ٍ تَجْرِي مِنْ تَحْتِهَا الأَنْهَارُ خَالِدِينَ فِيهَا أَبَدا ً قَدْ أَحْسَنَ اللَّهُ لَه ُُ رِزْق
a Messenger , who recites to you the Verses of Allāh (the Qur'ān) containing clear explanations, that He may take out, those who believe and do righteous good deeds from the darkness to the light (. And whosoever believes in Allāh and performs righteous good deeds, He will admit him into Gardens under which rivers flow (Paradise), to dwell therein forever. Allāh has indeed granted for him an excellent provision. (At-Talaq 65:11)
so We See this Reminder is Muhamamd(SWS)and his Ahl should be Asked if we know not.Now i cannot ask a Zaydi imam the Ta'wil of Verses because he has no Sanad.if according to your Aqidah Ali ibn Abi Talib(a.s)had nothing Supernatural about him,then of course your Zaydi imam has nothing sueprnatrual about him.
May Allah Protect us from the enemies of Ahl ul-Bayt(a.s).
October 25, 2010 7:47 AM
Ali said...
(correction to the above i ment to say ''Muhammad'')
also the ''sins''of Imams are good deeds,wich could have been done better.for example if ali(a.s)did not pray 5000 Prayers but just 5.
and the hadith regarding the Loins,this has no sanad,in our texts,and the Hadith fabricated by the Imams of Zaydis have no Weight on us,almost each sect has fabricated hadith to justify its own views.
We do not Beleive the Imams(a.s)Were Racists,we do not beelive the Lights of allah(SWT)were Favouritsts and oligarchists and nepotists!
zaydis are nepotists,because we have for example a good leader in Oman right now,a good leader in Libya,but worthless Tyrants in Hashemite countries and your last imam was a good example of this.but according to you the later is better ebcause he has some DNA the other mumin does not.
we believe Ahl ul-bayt have right on their virtues,and perfect pruification.what is the difference between your imam and any other ruler ,they both can opress others,they both are Fallible.
this is absolute Racism.
also the quran overrides any alleged ahdith and the Quran says:
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
سُنَّةَ اللَّهِ فِي الَّذِينَ خَلَوْا مِنْ قَبْلُ وَلَنْ تَجِدَ لِسُنَّةِ اللَّهِ تَبْدِيلا
This has been the Way of Allah regarding such people among those who lived before you, and you will never find any change in the Way of Allah.[33.62]
so when allah's sunnah was to appoint his rulers,then we cannot expect to find a change in this.
this includes othe rinnovations they have no basis.the whole zaydi sect is based on innovation.
furthermore it is the Wasi's job to interpret the Ta'wil and the verse about Rasikhuna Fi'l ilm proves this.
and allah's religion was completed on the day of Ghadeer,and that doesnt include changing from nass to election,ijtihad,qiyas or any other Innovation present within the Zaydi sect.
Imam muhamamd al-Baqir was Chosen as the Successer of imam Zayn al-abidin by the Prophet muhammad(SWS) himself,and ali's last speech shwos this.
it is super long but i will Quote it.
October 25, 2010 7:51 AM
Anonymous said...
Before this,he had singled out Hasan and Husayn for injunctions whereby he confided in them writing the names of the kings,the period of Existence of this World,and the names of the Da'is Till the Day of Ressurection.He Handed over to them the Quran and the book of Knowledge,then,when the people gathered around,ali said to them what he said.Then Ali wrote the testament as follows:
in the name of God,the mercifull the compassionate.This is the testament of the servant of God,Ali Ibn Abi TAlib,made in his last moments in this world,and away from the people and freinds.He bears witness that there is no diety other then god,who is unique and without associatte,and that muhammad is his slave,messenger,Trusted one,Blessings of God on him,his Progeny,and his fellow apostles and worthy descendants.
May God,on our behalf,requite Muhammad with the most excellent of requitals as may be made a prophet bu his community.I enjoiun you,O Hasan,those who are pr4esent from amongst the people of my house,my children,and my partisans,to all Fear god,''and die not save as those who have surrendered(i.e.become muslims),and hold fast ,all of you together to the Cable of Allah,and do not Seperate(Quran 3:102-103).(alternative Source Kafi,Volume 2,61-62 with slight variations)
For,Verily i have heard the messenger of God saying,The composing of differenced bwtween people of discord is better then all fasts and prayers'''.
I enjoin on you to take advantage of health before disease overtakes you and'' before a soul Should Say:Alas,my Grief that i was unmindfull of Allah,and i was indeed among the soffers!O'r should say:If Allah had but Guided me i shoudl have been among the dutifull!(Quran 39:56-57)But how and whence can this be now?for you were ruled by your passions;then will his sight be uncovered and his veils rent asunder in Accordance with God's
Word:Now We have removed from thee thy Covering,and piercing is thy Sight this Day(Quran 50:22).Whence can he have sight now?LO,did he not see the harm before this time and before the curtain was dropped on penitence by the descent of Calamity?and the soul desires if it could return,it would act in fear of God,but these Wishes are of No avail.
I Enjoin you to Avoid Passion,for Verily Passion leads to Blindness,and it is Straying from the right path both in this world and in the next.
I enjoin you to be sincere to
God;and Why should you not be sincerely devoted to God Who has Brought you forth from the loins of the polytheists and rescued you from the persistent denial of the Agnostics(Ahl-Al-Shakk Lit .people of Doubt)?So Worship Him out of hope and out of Awe.This will not go unrewarded by him.i enjoin on you to be sincerely devoted to Muhammad,the Righteouis guide and Messenger,and one of the Ways in Wich you show devotion to him is that you pay him his Dues.God Says:SAy(i.e O muhammad unto mankind):I ask you no fee therefor(i..e The Revelation),save for loving kindness towards my kinfold(Quran 42:23).a man who repays Muhammad his Dues showing affection towards his relations,has verily returned what was entrusted unto him.He who has not returned it,has become his
adversary,and he who become the prophets adversary,contends with the prophet,and he who contrends with the prophet,verily brings upon himself the Wrath of God and ''his Habitation in the fire,a Hapless Journey's End(Quran 3:162)
O People,Behold,Muhammad in nor Loved but For the Sake of God,and the Progeny of Muhammad are not Loved But for the Sake of Muhammad;so he who wishes may increase or decrease.I enjoin you to be affectionatte to us and be kind to our Partisans(Shi'atina),for he who does not do so,is not one of Us.I Enjoin you(to Love)the Companions of Muhammad who were not Innovators(LAM YUHDITHU HADATHAN),did not Shelter a Criminal(AWA MUHDITHAN),and did not not the right of (Ahl al-Bayt).For Surely,thre Messenger of God left them to our Care,adn cursed the innovaor amongst them and amongst others.
October 25, 2010 7:55 AM
Anonymous said...
Salam i Tried 20 ,times to post this ahdith,but the blog is acting Really Weird.
so you will have to See it here:
http://amiralmomineenkhutba.blogspot.com/2010/10/alis-last-sermon.html
clearly the apppointment of imam Muhammad al-Baqir(a.s)is Mentioned.
October 25, 2010 8:06 AM
Anonymous said...
Regarding who the imam is ,He is Tayyib Ibn Tayyib(a.s),it would be Advised to Read the first posts on this blog :)
Salat is not Defined in the Quran.Neither is hajj in complete Detail.this is why we have been ordered to Follow Ahl ul-bayt(a.s).
''''''''''''''''''You can never assume anyone will follow a person now if 1) the person is not mentioned directly in the quran 2) the person is not mentioned in the hadith that is 100% valid 3) they did not call to them self and taught people and showed how pious and noble that person is and show that they are a person that is aligned with the quran.''''''''''
1.in that case why follow ali(a.s)?
2.how do you determine wich hadith valid and not?after all ilm al-rijal is a Shafi'i By-Product and Ali Said:''Look at whats been said Rather then Who Said it''Never Deny a Hadith from Us wether it be from a Murji,Khariji or Nasibi there maybe some truth in it wich you have not Yet Grasped''
3.your definition of calling people is different then mine,you see the Isma'iliyah have a concept called Da'wah or Calling people to the Imam,and We have a Institution called ''Da'i''to do this.While Isma'iliyah would call people Intellectuelly and thru variouis Techniques,the Zaydis have one method of Calling:the Sword.
all our imams called people to themselves and we built Universitites for this Prupose,the Isma'ili Da'wah Reached so far the abbassids had to Create the Baghdad Manifesto to counter us!
http://www.experiencefestival.com/baghdad_manifesto
the Fact is Calling people Towards the imamate is a Isma'ili Phenomenon and you should not mistake us for Twelvers who stay Quietly in their homes!
Finally our Da'i has all the books Written by the Imams and their Representatives wich contain Ta'wil and Tafsir of the Quran.Qadhi nu'man also made a Tafsir of the Quran authorized by Our Caliphs.
in india,the mughal ruler had found the books of Ta'wil in the Library of one Da'i.After that he Went Crazy.
they Beheaded this Da'i for his book of Ta'wil.
our Ta'wil can also be found here:
http://www.amaana.org/muayyad/muaycont.htm
Life and Lectures of Al Muayyad fid-din al Shirazi
Majalis-ul Muayyadiya - by Al Muayyad fid-din Shirazi he was a top Da'i of imam al-mustansir(a.s).
Hamid al-Deen al-kirmani the top Da'i of imam al-Hakim bi amrAllah(SWS)Also Contribuetd to what is now Tayyibi Theology.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamid_al-Din_al-Kirmani
his works Are:
Rahat al-‘aql (Peace of Mind, or Comfort of Reason), completed in 1020 and considered his magnum opus
Al-Aqwal al-dhahabiya, refuting al-Razi's argument against the necessity of revelation Kitab al-riyad, a book that propounds the early Isma'ili cosmology.
October 25, 2010 8:24 AM
Ali said...
Also Isma'ilis believe Knowledge comes in stages,Meaning,i work my way up to gaining the knowledge,among Dawoodi bohra jama'at this goes so Strict they cant read any Ta'wil books until completing the Books of shari'ah,and then with the Permission of their Da'i they can Read books of Haqiqat(i.e. Ta'wil).
To Yemeni Isma'ilis who follow the sulaymani Jama'at they are more open then them!
and also i Tell people im an Athiest,because i live in the West,and life is too complicated here to say your a muslim.
but that deosnt mean im not a muslim!
maybe they felt Scared,as you know Zaydis are not a tolerant people!
and most Isma'ilis Are Bedouin,and maybe they dont know much of their Religon to answer your Questions.Bedouins have little time to Study,As allah(SWT) Gave me that privelage,al-Hamdulillah!
also Isma'ilis do not Translate the quran,and many Isma'ilis are Ignorant of the Quran because they dont Speak Arabic.they believe Translating the Quran is Haram.as Arabic is a distinct Language
Imam ahmed al-Mastoor(A.S)Says in Ikhwan al-Safa : Just as the human form is the last phase of the development of living being, so the Arabic language is the perfection of all languages and its script the perfection of calligraphy."
what i am doing is Wrong!
so maybe thats why they cant answer your Questions.
also you quoted:''ما يريد الله ان يذهب عنكم الرجس اهل البيت ويطهركم تطهيرا”''So why do you say your imams are From ahl ul-bayt?
your own interpretation refutes your own Beleifs!
notice the word :'' يريد الله''and ''يطهركم''
thsi si in continuation form.he did not Say Qad rad allah or Qad Tahirkum Tathiran he said :yutahirakum Tahriran(يطهركم تطهيرا) meaning this is continuouis and not Past tence.
any one who will come from Ahl ul-Bayt will be thus Perfectly Purifed.
just as the verses in quran call to those who Beleive!
but it refers to all beleivers ,in all times,and all Places and not just those during the time and city wich the Verse was Revealed!
fruthermore allah Said :وَإِذْ قَالَ رَبُّكَ لِلْمَلاَئِكَةِ إِنِّي جَاعِل ٌ فِي الأَرْضِ خَلِيفَة ً قَالُوا أَتَجْعَلُ فِيهَا مَنْ يُفْسِدُ فِيهَا وَيَسْفِكُ الدِّمَاءَ وَنَحْنُ نُسَبِّحُ بِحَمْدِكَ وَنُقَدِّسُ لَكَ قَالَ إِنِّي أَعْلَمُ مَا لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ
Notice''إِنِّي جَاعِل ٌ فِي الأَرْضِ خَلِيفَة''(i.e Ja3ilun not Ja3ilu)Implying continuation.meaning allah will Maker a Khalifah in the Earth always,and it does not refr to one Khalifah.
notice he will make the khalifah in the Earth and not You :)
Allah (سبحانه وتعالى)Wants ambassadors.
Allah(سبحانه وتعالى) Does not Want Self-Proclaimed Screw -ups!
October 25, 2010 8:47 AM
Ali said...
Furthermore ''''ما يريد الله ان يذهب عنكم الرجس اهل البيت ويطهركم تطهيرا”
Would contradict your imamate because it mentioned that the Ahl Ul-Bayt Are PErfectly Purified.
Shi'a muslims Interpret that as Ali(a.s)Not being Najis ever,and that He Does not Require Wudhu.I Find it a Insult Towards Ahl Ul-Bayt(a.s)When Twelvers Say:Imam Hussain(a.s)Did not Pray Salat Al-khawf Because he was Drenched in Blood''
What!his Blood is Tahir,and no Najis can Come to Him You People!
Also since you Admit your Imams Were not Prufied,they would be excluded from Ahl Ul-Bayt(a.s).Allah Said:
سَنَفْرُغُ لَكُمْ أَيُّهَا الثَّقَلاَنِ
We shall attend to you, O you two HeavyWheights!(Ar-Rahman 55:31)
the Transliteration is :Sanafrughu Lakum Ayyuha THAQALAYN
And the Hadith Al-Thaqalayn mentions quran and Ahl Ul-Bayt(a.s)being ther Two ''Heavywheights''wich we shoudl Adhere too ,
قام رسول الإسلام (صلَّى الله عليه وآله) يوماً فينا خطيباً بماء يدعى خُماً بين مكة والمدينة، فحمد الله وأثنى عليه، ووعظ وذكَّر، ثم قال :" أما بعد، ألا أيها الناس، فإنّما أنا بشر يوشك أن يأتي رسول ربي فأجيب، وأنا تارك فيكم ثقلين، أولهما كتاب الله فيه الهدى والنور، فخذوا بكتاب الله واستمسكوا به " فحَثَّ على كتاب الله ورغَّبَ فيه، ثم قال :" وأهل بيتي، أذكِّرَكُمُ الله في أهل بيتي، أذكِّرَكُمُ الله في أهل بيتي، أذكِّرَكُمُ الله في أهل بيتي "
it Looks like All Your Imams after Al-Sajjad (besides Abi Jaafar and Abu Abdullah)were Not True Imams!
and your Argment concerning Atributtes,One Cannot Be Good and Bad at the Same Time.Oen Can not be Knowledgable and Ignorant at the Same time.
Water and Fire cannot Co-exist at the same time.Light and Darkness cannot co-exist at the same time.The only ones that can be Described as ''knowledgable(Alimun)is the Rasikhuna Fi'l ilm.One Who learns shwos he had Ignorance,since otherwise he wouldnt need to learn.
English Translation)Ali ibn Ibrahim has narrated from Muhammad ibn ‘Isa from Yunus from Jamil who has said
AL KAFI - H 56, Ch. 3, h4
Ali ibn Ibrahim has narrated from Muhammad ibn ‘Isa from Yunus from Jamil who has said
the following: “I heard Imam abu ‘Abd Allah, recipient of divine supreme covenant, saying,
‘People become of three groups: Scholars, those who learn and garbled ones. We are the
scholars. Our followers are the ones who learn. The rest of the people are garbled ones.”
Secondly when The Prophet said:I am the city of Knowledge and ali is its Gate(ana Madinat Al-ilm Wa aliyan Al-babah)he mentioend Al-Ilm All Knowledge.and Al-Raskhuna Fi'l Ilm have The ilm.
further more ali Said:Do not allow favouritism and nepotism to force you to violate your duties to God and man, and drive you towards tyranny and oppression.
While selecting officers take care that you do not select such persons as have served tyrannical and oppressive rulers and have been responsible for atrocities and savage cruelties.
This Contradicts the Zaydi imamate wich is based on exactly what ali i Warning us of.
May allah(SWT) lead us to His path!
October 25, 2010 11:20 AM
Ali said...
Also if You Say the imams must Follow Attributes,well you say the imam must be Just,but in order to be Just he must not be Tyrannical in the least,this is Impossible for the non-Masoom.
And the verse says
''''ما يريد الله ان يذهب عنكم الرجس اهل البيت ويطهركم تطهيرا”
meaning Allah will keep the Ahl Ul-Bayt from Al-
Rijs,now you can Claim allah keeps your imams From Al-Rijs,By as far as i know Zaydis dont beelive in Fatalism and do not say a Person's Good or bad actions are Controled by allah.
you say Teh Ahl Al-kisa(Alayhum Al-Salam)Were only Immune to the Kabaa'ir.
Allah Said:
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
إِنْ تَجْتَنِبُوا كَبَائِرَ مَا تُنْهَوْنَ عَنْهُ نُكَفِّرْ عَنْكُمْ سَيِّئَاتِكُمْ وَنُدْخِلْكُمْ مُدْخَلا ً كَرِيم
If you avoid the great sins which you are forbidden to do, We shall remit from you your (small) sins, and admit you to a Noble Entrance (i.e. Paradise). (An-Nisa 4:31)بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
الَّذِينَ يَجْتَنِبُونَ كَبَائِرَ الإِثْمِ وَالْفَوَاحِشَ إِلاَّ اللَّمَمَ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ وَاسِعُ الْمَغْفِرَةِ هُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِكُمْ إِذْ أَنشَأَكُمْ مِنَ الأَرْضِ وَإِذْ أَنْتُمْ أَجِنَّة ٌ فِي بُطُونِ أُمَّهَاتِكُمْ فَلاَ تُزَكُّوا أَنفُسَكُمْ هُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِمَنِ اتَّقَى
Those who avoid great sins and Al-Fawāhish (illegal sexual intercourse, etc.) except the small faults, verily, your Lord is of vast forgiveness. He knows you well when He created you from the earth, and when you were fetuses in your mothers' wombs. So ascribe not purity to yourselves. He knows best him who fears Allāh and keep his duty to Him An-Najm 53:32)
Now The Quran Mentions 7 Kabaa'ir wich are different then the Hadith
:بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
قُلْ تَعَالَوْا أَتْلُ مَا حَرَّمَ رَبُّكُمْ عَلَيْكُمْ أَلاَّ تُشْرِكُوا بِه ِِ شَيْئا ً وَبِالْوَالِدَيْنِ إِحْسَانا ً وَلاَ تَقْتُلُوا أَوْلاَدَكُمْ مِنْ إِمْلاَق ٍ نَحْنُ نَرْزُقُكُمْ وَإِيَّاهُمْ وَلاَ تَقْرَبُوا الْفَوَاحِشَ مَا ظَهَرَ مِنْهَا وَمَا بَطَنَ وَلاَ تَقْتُلُوا النَّفْسَ الَّتِي حَرَّمَ اللَّهُ إِلاَّ بِالْحَقِّ ذَلِكُمْ وَصَّاكُمْ بِه ِِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَعْقِلُونَ
Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Come, I will recite what your Lord has prohibited you from: Join not anything in worship with Him; be good and dutiful to your parents; kill not your children because of poverty - We provide sustenance for you and for them; come not near to Al-Fawāhish (shameful sins, illegal sexual intercourse, etc.) whether committed openly or secretly, and kill not anyone whom Allāh has forbidden, except for a just cause (according to Islāmic law). This He has commanded you that you may understand. (Al-An'am 6:151)بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
وَلاَ تَقْرَبُوا مَالَ الْيَتِيمِ إِلاَّ بِالَّتِي هِيَ أَحْسَنُ حَتَّى يَبْلُغَ أَشُدَّه ُُ وَأَوْفُوا الْكَيْلَ وَالْمِيزَانَ بِالْقِسْطِ لاَ نُكَلِّفُ نَفْسا ً إِلاَّ وُسْعَهَا وَإِذَا قُلْتُمْ فَاعْدِلُوا وَلَوْ كَانَ ذَا قُرْبَى وَبِعَهْدِ اللَّهِ أَوْفُوا ذَلِكُمْ وَصَّاكُمْ بِه ِِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَذَكَّرُونَ
And come not near to the orphan's property, except to improve it, until he (or she) attains the age of full strength; and give full measure and full weight with justice. We burden not any person, but that which he can bear. And whenever you give your word say the truth even if a near relative is concerned, and fulfill the Covenant of Allāh, This He commands you, that you may remember. (Al-An'am 6:152)
Thats Interesting,there are 7 Kabaa'ir to my Knowledge:According to the Hadith found in Bukhari and Muslim they Are :
"associating anything with Allah; magic; killing one whom Allah has declared inviolate without a just case, consuming the property of an orphan, devouring usury, turning back when the army advances, and slandering chaste women who are believers but indiscreet."
Meaning you Accuse Ali of having been able to commit Many Crimes!
(I am Refering to The quranic Definition of the 7 Kabaa'ir and not the one in teh Hadith)
(if we take the one in the Hadith to Be True,then You accuse Ali of Beign able to commit Various Crimes!)
May allah Protect us From That!
October 25, 2010 11:45 AM
Ali said...
concerning the imam isma'il ibn Jafar(a.s)my Posts are being deleted Automaticly,but Insha'Allah later they will Be Available.
His mother was a Highly Auristicratic lady,She was Fatima bint al-Hussain al-Athram bin al-Hasan bin Ali A Sayyida From the Hasani Lineage.
Imam Jafar Al-Sadiq also was a Hasani Thru His mother Umm Farwa,or a Muhammadui Thru Umm Farwa (Fatimah bint Al-Qasim ibn Muhammad ibn Abi Bakr)
Imam Al-Baqir had to Wives named Umm Farwa,and one was a Hasani sayyida,it is not Clear who was the mother of Al-imam Jafar Al-Sadiq
Imam al-Baqir was also a Hasani thru his mother Fātimah bint al-Hasan ibn ‘Alī
so 3 in a Row!
Imam Jafar Al-Sadiq Said Concernign Isma'il :
''He is the Imam after me, and what you learn from him is just the same as if you have learnt it from myself''
the Trusted companions of imam Jafar al-Sadiq Followed Imam Isma'il
Such As Abu Hamza Thabit bin Abu Sufiya Dinar as-Samali (d. 150/767), a mawla (freed slave) from Kufa. Jafar Sadiq is reported to have said that Abu Hamza was in his time like Salman al-Farisi in his own time (Abu Hamza fi zamani'hi mithl Salman fi zamani'hi).
and the Twelvers uphold his virtue,and Narrate du'a From Him(like du'a Abu Hamzah Al-Thamali mentioend by Al-Saduq a Shi'ah Writer).
October 25, 2010 12:51 PM
Zabarah said...
Again you are writing the same stuff you said before. Brother you write stuff and stay it is from Albahr alzakhar. READ THE BOOK AND COMPARE!!!!!! DONT LIE AND SAY IT IS FROM OUR BOOKS.
Actual text number one وَيَصِحُّ إكْرَاهُ الْمَرْأَةِ فَيَسْقُطُ الْحَدُّ وَالْإِثْمُ حَيْثُ لَا تَمَكُّنَ مِنْ الدَّفْعِ ، he is saying that a raped woman is not punished or sinfull. but she is sinful if she is able to push away and doesnt. NO TUGYAH
Actual text وَيُبَاحُ مَالُ الْغَيْرِ بِالْإِكْرَاهِ بِشَرْطِ الضَّمَانِ كَالِاضْطِرَارِ That you can for example take water from by force if you are afraid of dying from thirst.
and so is eating what is not permissible only if you are going to die of thrist or hunger or someone will stab you to death if you dont do what he/she says.
Here is the criteria for tugia إمَّا بِقَتْلٍ أَوْ قَطْعِ عُضْوٍ أَوْ ضَرْبٍ أَوْ طَعْنٍ بِذِي حَدٍّ ، وَهَذَا مُؤْثَرٌ إجْمَاعًا (translation if you wil be directly killed, or a part of your body will be severed, or a severe beating or being stabbed) that is knowing 100% that this will happen. and then he says ،
وَتَرْكُ مَا أُكْرِهَ عَلَيْهِ أَفْضَلُ وَإِنْ قُتِلَ لِتَفْضِيلِهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَآلِهِ وَسَلَّمَ إيمَانَ يَاسِرٍ لَمَّا صَبَرَ عَلَى الْقَتْلِ .
If he dies not do tugyah then that is better for him/her such as Yasser when he died denouncing shirk.
Brother: telling westerners you are atheist is not necessary. you should be proud and call them to our religion.
Sunnis are not my concern I am not Sunni.
All you gave me from the quran are attributes not names. This tells us that to know who to follow depends on their attributes.
Where is your Imam? DO you follow an Imam or Dai?
Imam Zaid has more Ahadith than Albaqir and there is an Ayah to show which Imam is to be followed.
The prophet once looked at Zayd ibn Harithah, cried, and said "The martyr in the sake of Allah, The crucified of my people, The oppressed from my progeny, his name is thus." Then the prophet pointed at Zayd ibn Harithah and said "Come closer to me, your name became more dear to me because it is the same as my dear child (Zaid.)"
October 25, 2010 8:13 PM
Zabarah said...
Imam Muhammad al-Baqir narrated: "The Holy Prophet put his sacred hand on Husayn bin Ali's back and said: 'O Husayn, it will not be long until a man will be born among your descendants. He will be called Zaid; he will be killed as a martyr. On the day of resurrection, he and his companions will enter heaven, setting their feet on the necks of the people.'"
لاَّ يَسْتَوِي الْقَاعِدُونَ مِنَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ غَيْرُ أُوْلِي الضَّرَرِ )وَالْمُجَاهِدُونَ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ بِأَمْوَالِهِمْ وَأَنفُسِهِمْ فَضَّلَ اللّهُ الْمُجَاهِدِينَ بِأَمْوَالِهِمْ وَأَنفُسِهِمْ عَلَى الْقَاعِدِينَ دَرَجَةً وَكُلاًّ وَعَدَ اللّهُ الْحُسْنَى وَفَضَّلَ اللّهُ الْمُجَاهِدِينَ عَلَى الْقَاعِدِينَ أَجْرًا عَظِيمًا(
Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home). Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward;
Also the Imam alnafs alzakya has Ahadith that 12rs agree with us in.
If it is a written scripture that the Imams are those by name not attribute then why cant you agree with the Aga khans????? why cant you agree with the 12rs???? Where is the proof of appointed names?
YOu have no Imam now. where is your Imam in Gheeba? who teachs and show you the way? the Imam? Where can I meet him to listen from him?
if you are accusing us of nepotism which is what you are doing yourself. you are saying monarchy is better. these are the Imams what ever they may do?????at least in Zaidies if an Imam is not righteous then he must be changed.
also, you are conflicting your self. You said that you call to your Imam. but earlier you said you didnt and that you only grow by marriage. ?????
In yemen we dont have influence. On the contrary we are persecuted! Ismalies have influence and money and they give big presents to the president. Zaidies are hated by all rulers and everybody knows that! which is odd that you blame zaidies ismailies don't admit to be ismailies???
Zaidies fight only the tyrants and the oppressors to put allahs command above them. they live in harmony with other groups and call them the peaceful way.
P.S. Zaida. this site deletes posts. which is tiring. :)
October 25, 2010 8:14 PM
Anonymous said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
لاَ يَسْتَوِي الْقَاعِدُونَ مِنَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ غَيْرُ أُوْلِي الضَّرَرِ وَالْمُجَاهِدُونَ فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ بِأَمْوَالِهِمْ وَأَنفُسِهِمْ فَضَّلَ اللَّهُ الْمُجَاهِدِينَ بِأَمْوَالِهِمْ وَأَنفُسِهِمْ عَلَى الْقَاعِدِينَ دَرَجَة ً وَكُلاّ ً وَعَدَ اللَّهُ الْحُسْنَى وَفَضَّلَ اللَّهُ الْمُجَاهِدِينَ عَلَى الْقَاعِدِينَ أَجْراً عَظِيما
Now this Verse Mentions the word ''''Al-Mujahidun''(الْمُجَاهِدُونَ) and not ''Qatil Fi SabilAllah''or Al-Muqatilun Fi sabilAllah(SWT).its Advized to Look at the Quran before Quoting it.The word Qatil is mentioned NOWHERE IN THE VERSE.
''وَالْمُجَاهِدُونَ فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ بِأَمْوَالِهِمْ وَأَنفُسِهِمْ ''and mujahideen in the Way of allah(SW),With their Wealth( بِأَمْوَالِهِمْ )
And their Selves(وَأَنفُسِهِمْ),)nowhere it says Bi Suyufahum(with their Swords)Or Bi Tayaaratahum Al-Harb(with their Warplanes)!
Notice the Words Clearly''وَالْمُجَاهِدُونَ فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ بِأَمْوَالِهِمْ وَأَنفُسِهِمْ''
meaning anyone who performs Jihad for the sake of Allah.it is Interesting that allah specifies Wich Type of Jihad ,He is Talking About.
''with their Wealth and their Selves''The Translations of the Qur'an have translated Bi Anfusihim as ''With their lives''when anfusihim means Selves(Nafs The Singular means Self)
The Imams(a.s)Practiced Jihad with Their Tongues,Their Wealth,and Their Hearts.
and yes later with their Swords.
As you know according to The Hadith of Rasoolallah(SWS),if one cannot commit jihad against the disbeleivers with their Swords,they should do it with their Wealth(بِأَمْوَالِهِمْ),if they cannot do it with their wealth,they should do it with their tongue,if they cannot do it with their tongue,they should do it with their hearts.
So this would Not Contradict our Beleif in the Hidden Imams(a.s)As they practiced jihad with their Selves!
And it is a Pillar of Islam,To Practice Jihad!So If a Ordinary Momin will do this,We Cannot Expect any Masoom Imam to Not Perform the Jihad!
Furthermore the Words of Allah(SWT):وَإِذْ قَالَ رَبُّكَ لِلْمَلاَئِكَةِ إِنِّي جَاعِل ٌ فِي الأَرْضِ خَلِيفَة ً قَالُوا أَتَجْعَلُ فِيهَا مَنْ يُفْسِدُ فِيهَا وَيَسْفِكُ الدِّمَاءَ وَنَحْنُ نُسَبِّحُ بِحَمْدِكَ وَنُقَدِّسُ لَكَ قَالَ إِنِّي أَعْلَمُ مَا لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ
There is a Difference Between aja3alu(أَتَجْعَلُ) and Ja3ilun ( جَاعِل )wich is Used in the Verse To Describe Him Making The Khalifah.Allah has Clearly stated that he will continouisly make a Khalifah in the Earth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Notice he mentions the Word'' قَالُوا أَتَجْعَلُ فِيهَا مَنْ يُفْسِدُ فِيهَا وَيَسْفِكُ الدِّمَاءَ وَنَحْنُ نُسَبِّحُ بِحَمْدِكَ وَنُقَدِّسُ لَكَ قَالَ إِنِّي أَعْلَمُ مَا لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ
They(the angels)Said will you make(i.e aja3alu)them even though they will cause Bloodhsed in the Earth,and allah Replies Surely i Know what you Know not( إِنِّي أَعْلَمُ مَا لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ)
Whereas when allah Says:وَإِذْ قَالَ رَبُّكَ لِلْمَلاَئِكَةِ إِنِّي جَاعِل ٌ فِي الأَرْضِ خَلِيفَة
And when your Lord Said To the Angels:Surely,i will Create a Khalifah in the Earth.
He Mentions Ja3ilun wich implies a continious Creation!
Also Why Are You Attacking us for not having a Physically Present Imam,when you Have no imam,Wether Physically or Otherwise?????????????????????????????????????????????????
October 26, 2010 11:22 AM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
In Regards To your first question:
[Who is your Imam. The Dai is not Imam is he? who appointed him?]
the Da'i is a Deputy of the Imam(a.s),and he Was appointed by the Imam(a.s),Each Da'i appoints the Next Da'i when he Receives Instructions from the Imam(a.s).
Regarding your Second Question :
(after him Came the Period of Satr or Secret Mission) [Why? What is different that the mission became secret??]
The Abbassids Wanted to Kill Imam Isma'il Ibn Jafar(عليه السلام ),As He Had Been Appointed As the Imam Many times During the Life of Al-Imam Jafar Al-Sadiq.
Imam Isma'il(عليه السلام )Was summoned to The Court of the Abbassids and Al-Imam Jafar Al-Sadiq(عليه السلام )had Prayed to allah to Save him,Thus he Was Saved.Imam Isma'il had a Twin Brother Named Abdullah al-Aflah(R.A)and he Was Buried in a Cascet and the Governer of Medina Testified imam Isma'il died(عليه السلام ),but it Was not Imam Isma'il(عليه السلام ),It Was Abdullah Al-Aflah,Imam Isma'il was known by Variouis Names such as al-Mubarak,Abu'l-Khattab Al-Asadi,And His Followers the Isma'iliyah in the period of Hiding Were known as The ''Mubarikkiyah''and the ''Khattabiya'',Imam Jafar Al-adiq denounced Imam Isma'il Publicly For his Association with Abu'l Khattab al-Asadi,when this was to Save his olife From teh abbassid suspicion,and In Fact Imam Isma'il(a.s)Was known as Abu'l-Khattab al-Asadi.
Imam Isma'il Fled Medina,when Al-dhunafs Al-Zakiya Led his Revolt agaisnt The abbassids,the city was in upheavel,and He Feld with the Caravans that Were Leaving,He Was Calling People to his Imamate in Secret,and One Blind Man,in Bosra,syria, Saw him and Was Healed By His Du'a(Prayer to allah),After That News Spread Imam Isma'il(عليه السلام ) Was alive,and The abbassids had Caught him Once again,the governer was told to Bring Him to the Court of the Abbassids,and The Governer Converted to the Isma'ili Form of Islam,and Said Imam Isma'il died,thereby he Helped him.
Imam Isma'il would Appoint imam Muhammad Ibn Isma'il as the imam After him.
At This time,Imam Musa Al-Kadhim .The Younger Brother of Imam Isma'il and the Uncle of Imam Muhammad Ibn Isma'il,Was Claiming Imamate Only to Diverge Attention Away From Imam Muhammad Ibn Isma'il.
After This the Imam after him was
Abdullah Ibn Muhammad then Ahmed ibn Abdullah and then Husayn Ibn Ahmed,they were Known By Various Identities,in this Time,the Da'i's would make their Followers Pay allegiance to the Imam Whoever he is,and wherever he may Be.
only the Top Da'is of the imam knew who He Was.
and their names have been revealed to us at a later Date.
October 26, 2010 11:28 AM
Ali said...
In This time Our Imams(a.s)Wrote the Ikhwan Al-Safa,One of the most Influential works ever Appearing in the muslim World sicne 1400 Years that rpophet Muhammad(SWS)Was gone!
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/news/88/64/Ikhwanus-Safa-A-rational-and-liberal-approach-to-Islam/d,pdb_detail_article/
It is Called:''Ikhwanus Safa: A rational and liberal approach to Islam
''
It Is a recommended Read.
it was intended to refute the ''Mutazila',and the Greek doctrines they were Bringing into Islam.
it must be Noted the Mutazila Were Employed by the Abbassids to attack Islam,and create doubt,and Mistrust in Our Religion.
They Wrote This in Salamia ,Syria.
Husayn's Son Sa'id or abdullah ibn Husayn Would migrate From Syria to Qayrawan(Modern Day tunisia)and End the period of hiding,He Would Be Called Al-Mahdi Bi'llah and he would find the fatimid Dynasty,whos Borders would Reach From Morrocco To Yemen.
in 909 Imam Al-Mahdi(عليه السلام )Rose up agaisnt the Aghlabid dynasty and the Rustamid dynasty wich were Vassals of the abbassids.
He Would Create The Fatimid State,and a Safe haven for His Isma'ili Followers,to Openly Practice their Faith.
His Da'i Al-Mansur Al-Yaman Would conquer Yemen.
and that was the end of The First Period of Satr,Or hiding!
October 26, 2010 11:31 AM
zabarah said...
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
و به نستعين
All what you say can be refuted but i will make it short and simple no need to repeat the same stuff over and over. we are hear to find the truth and not waste time with lots of maybes.
1)We follow people from ahlulbayt who are eligible for Imamah and they have been strugling for this. read some news about sadah. which you can meet.
2) I want to meet your Imam. if you say I cant learn and hear from him. then i am sorry you are not following ahlulbayt. you are following non ahlul bayt and remember what the prophet said in althagalain hadith.
3) You said the imams are named by allah to prophet mohamad. where is the quran quote or hadith quote that is 100% valid with the exact names for all.
و الحمد لله علام الغيوب
October 26, 2010 12:10 PM
Anonymous said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
Isa(a.s)did not Perform Jihad in the Violent Way(Bi Qatil)but he was a Great Mujahid.
The Prophet Muhammad(SWS)Did not perform Jihad in his Early Years,Ammar ibn Yassir did not Die at the hands of the Opressive rulers of Quraish,but at the Battle of siffin,Modern day Ar-Raqqah,Syria
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Siffin
and he was 99 Years old.the Prophet Said:''Wahayk Wahayk Ya Ibnu Sumaya,Taqtuluka Fiya hul Baghiya''
congragulations,Congragulations O son of Summaya,you will Be Killed by a Rebbeliouis Group!
(We all know the quran says the Rebbeliouis Group will go to Hell)
when the companions of ali,Recited this to the Soldiers of Mu'awiyah,Mu'awayah had Asserted:it was not me who killed him.but ali,Because ali Sent him Here!
so i dont know Who told you Ammar ibn Yassir died at the hands of the Quraish Opressive rulers when He had fought for ali,until his Last days,May the mercy of alla and his Blessings Be upon all His companions.
Allah Says:
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
وَكَذَّبُوا وَاتَّبَعُوا أَهْوَاءَهُمْ وَكُلُّ أَمْر ٍ مُسْتَقِرّ
And they call (it) a lie, and follow their low desires; and every affair has its appointed term.(Al-Qamar 54:3)
''Wa Kullu Amrin mustaqqirun''so at the time Imam Zayn al-abideen was not the appointed time for Rising up in violence,At the time of Imam Isma'il(a.s)It was not teh appointed time to Rise up in violence,At the time of Imam Al-Mahdi bi'llah(a.s)it Was!
BESIDES NOWHERE in the quran its says a imam must rise up in violence,nor the Hadith.This is Rather a Ibadhi Beleif incorporated into Zaydism.
Just like many Ibadhi Beleifs Incorporated into Zaydism.
furthermore,I ment to Say there were 6 Rasool al-Adham and 7 Nutaqa,the last of them will Be Qa'im al-qiyamah.
also do Zaydi's Beleive allah(SWT)Created the Heaven and Earth in 6 Days?
If so,this would be a Erronouis Beleif,allah Says:بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
مَا كَانَ لِلَّهِ أَنْ يَتَّخِذَ مِنْ وَلَد ٍ ۖ سُبْحَانَهُ~ُ ۚ إِذَا قَضَى أَمْرا ً فَإِنَّمَا يَقُولُ لَه ُُ كُنْ فَيَكُونُ
It befits not (the Majesty of) Allāh that He should beget a son [this refers to the slander of Christians against Allāh, by saying that 'Iesa (Jesus) is the son of Allāh]. Glorified (and Exalted be He above all that they associate with Him). When He decrees a thing, He only says to it, "Be!" and it is[]. (Maryam 19:35)
''notice'' إِذَا قَضَى أَمْرا ً فَإِنَّمَا يَقُولُ لَه ُُ كُنْ فَيَكُونُ
''Idha Qađa 'Amran Fa'innama Yaqulu Lahu Kun Fayakun''so alalh clearly states he when he wills osmething to ber Created he only says to It:Be and It Is!
furthermore allah is Above Time,and it would be Erronious to Say it takes him 6 Days to complete something!
as the moon defines a day and the moon had not been Created Yet!
and taking time to complete somethign indicates Weakness and limitation to compete it at a more rapid pace!
this is ebcause Al-Mu'ayyadh fi'l-deen Al-shirazi explained this,he said it refers to the 6 Ambiya al-Nutaqa(Adam,Nuh,Ibrahim,Musa,Isa,muhammad)
al-shirazi Says:''The heavens and earth do not mean the heavens and earth with which we are familiar and the days do not mean the days in the sense in which we understand them. They refer to the different ranks of the Natiqs who are in charge of the taweel, which moulds our intellect and souls into new forms. ''
furthermore do zaydis beleive the body will be Ressurected or just the soul?
October 26, 2010 12:13 PM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
Even the Verse Before An-nisa 4:95 does not define this Jihad as bi qatil
it says :
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا إِذَا ضَرَبْتُمْ فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ فَتَبَيَّنُوا وَلاَ تَقُولُوا لِمَنْ أَلْقَى إِلَيْكُمُ السَّلاَمَ لَسْتَ مُؤْمِنا ً تَبْتَغُونَ عَرَضَ الْحَيَاةِ الدُّنْيَا فَعِنْدَ اللَّهِ مَغَانِمُ كَثِيرَة ٌ كَذَلِكَ كُنتُمْ مِنْ قَبْلُ فَمَنَّ اللَّهُ عَلَيْكُمْ فَتَبَيَّنُوا إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ خَبِيرا
no Mention of Qatil!Allah would have used Qatil fi sabilallah if he ment that.
also you Say ali was a sinner.in this Case why follow the quran?
How do you know the quran is 100%authentic?
how do you know husyan wasnt Lying for soem money,when he Said(According to you)the imamate shall come with election?
a lie is among As-Saghaa'ir and not al-Kabaa'ir.furthermore,maybe he made a mistake(According to your Sunni/Ibadhi Aqidah)
Also the Jarudiyah Clearly stated ''he who is a mushrik who calls hismelf a imam,and draws the curtains in his home''and its funny that the Zaydiyah ascribed the samwe wording to Imam jafar al-Sadiq(a.s)when claiming he didnt claim to be a Imam!
Coudlnt you have Thought of something better?
1.i use the quran when Defining imamate,The quran says it is by appointment,and you will Find no Change in the sunnayh of Allah(SWT)
2.there are Hadith were ali says Abu Bakr Are Greater then him.if its that easy for the sunni's to Fabricate this Hadith,the power Hungry Zaydi imams had every possibility to fabricate these Hadiths
3.The Agha khani's and twelvers like Zaydis followed Self-proclaimed imams,73 Sects,if they had obeyed the imam before the splits they wouldnt have been in this mess.
4.what is up with :Jarudiyya,Sulaimaniyya.Salihiyah,dukayniyah,Khalifiyah,Khashabiyyah,why didnt they follow the same imams?
5.the hadith you quoted by al-Baqir is correct,but nowehere,oes it say he is a Imam.
6.Hadith al-Lahw (where Imam al-Baqir is appointed by The Prophet(SWS)is Transmitted by both Shi'ah and sunni,and Authenticated as Sahih.
7.i remind you to look at my posts,and go through my Arguments Clearly
8.plz answer my questions,all of them in regards to the replies i gave on yours.
plz dont challenge the quran!and plz take heed to the fact you cant be 2 qualities at the same time!
9.Allah Tests the Beleivers with the Seclusion of the imam(as.),you cannot Talk to him,Only the Da'i can do that.
10.just as a Kindergarden student will not be able to Understand a University Student,a person at the lowest level of Ilm in Isma'iliyah will not be allowwed to read the books of the Higher stages ,until he has Earned it.this is why little knowledge is among the common populace.this is why our Theology is not out in the open.
October 26, 2010 12:33 PM
Ali said...
also the Twelvers had tooken the concept of 12 imams from the Persian Eschathology(Majusiyah Aqidah).
I am a Persiologist and i know this.all sources state this.even Iranians state this.
They Are :
1.Farvardīn
2.Ordībehešt
3.Xordād
4.Tīr
5.Mordād
6.Šahrīvar
7.Mehr
8.Ābān
9.Āzar
10.Dey
11.Bahman
12.Esfand
they were the 12 Yazata's(literally in Pahlavi meaning ''Worthy of Veneration')and Were "the good powers under Ohrmuzd," (Cheif diety of the Majusiyah)
the abbassids,Who were mostly persian,and theyre Palace people,and Palace Advizors were mainly zoroastrian.(al-Mamun is a Great example of a Half Persian Caliph)had Incorporated this Into Islam!
we say the last imam will be the 98th,but we Say the imam is the one with ''Wasaya,(Will)Weapon(sayf) and Sheild''also,unlike you,it is not Nepotism,because we say their right to imamate is based on their Virtues,charactyersistics,and Good Intentions rather then theyre Lineage Exclusively.
in fact we and Zaydis Agree on this.however we
say a imam must be 100% just,and you say he must only be 50%!
also,why not reconize the king of oman as a imam right now?let me guess, because he isnt a Sayyid!(and a Zaydi,but wait other imams of yours Weren't Zaydis!)
we dont,because he is not Masoom,and allah gave him no right to call himself that,just like your imams have no right to call themselves,that the proof of this is what i have mentioend in the above
it is easily Manifest for the Truth-Seeker,provided they use theyre Intelligence to Understand it :)
October 26, 2010 12:49 PM
Ali said...
Finally,Tariq bin Shihab asked: “O Ameer al-Momineen please explain the virtues of an Imam (masoom), Ameer al-Momineen replied:
O Tariq, Imam (as) is the Kalama-t-Allāh [Word of God], Waj'ha-t-Allah [Face of God], Hijaba-t-Allah [Veil of God], Nūru-Allah [Light of God], Āya-t-Allah [Sign of God]
Nabi Dawud(a.s)(the prophet david)could Speak with the birds,Nabi Sulayman(a.s)(solomon)could Talk with the birds,a Female ant,a hoopoe and Enslave the Devils among the Jinn,and Isa(a.s)could Create a Bird with his won Two Hands by Breatjhign life ijn it(this is Mentioned in sura al-Ma'ida and the Infancy gospel of St.Thomas(a Lost gospel found Recently in egypt)as wella s mentioend by a Jewish Rabbi at The time of Isa(Alayhi As-salam)but to you ali has no supernatural powers bi'Ithnillah?
October 26, 2010 1:04 PM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
cocnerning Al-
thaqalayn ,in the eys of many people,and i can see their reasoning,it is a Hadith used to prove Love for the prophet's Family,but not a political Succession.
the sunni's do not interpret it as such.and i can quote their view on it.
futhermore,i shwoed you,By your own Reasoning,that your imams Are not Ahl ul-Bayt,because Ahl ul-bayt ahs certain Attributtes .i.e. being Perfectly purified,no rijs can come to them(meaning both in Wudhu and ghusl etc)
they are Ahl al-dhikr,Rasikhuna Fi'l ilm etc,but your imams are not this.therefore your imams are Sada but not Ahl ul-Bayt.
my Explanation is quiet simple Wallah!
toelarn someyhing shows ignorance,the mnroe knwoedge you attain,the more ignorant you ebcome,because knowledge is limitless,therefore they cant be Rasikhuna fi'l ilm,or Ulama,thats why as i quopted in the Hadith,Imam Abu abdullah Said:''Fa Na7nu al-Ulama''(we are the One with ilm(ui.e. Scholars)''
but our imams had endless knowledge directly from Allah(Ilm al-Ladunni)
ismaili.net/histoire/history03/history384.html -
evans-experientialism.freewebspace.com/jafar_al_sadiq.htm -
the proof is their inventions,and scientific knowledge.
see the links.
before saying anything !
turning the question over,Who is your imam?can i speak to him?if not why do you claim to follow Ahl Ul-bayt(a.s),and what happened to all those Zaydi's since 1969?
:)
October 26, 2010 1:15 PM
zabarah said...
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
go to sadah and you find sidi badr aldeen alhouthi. he has been strugling since.
and imam majd aldeen almoyadee before him who has just died.
we can have two imams at the same time. and yes they are calling for the same thing.
October 26, 2010 2:04 PM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
Brother Zabarah,i than you for your Scholarluy discussion,and i am Impressed by Zaydi's,except for a few,ive ever experienced comments full of emotion from them,just Clear Academica,and i Admire that :)
I shall Try to answer your statements Insha'Allah( Jala Jalalahu)
YOU SAID:
''''if you are accusing us of nepotism which is what you are doing yourself. you are saying monarchy is better. these are the Imams what ever they may do?????at least in Zaidies if an Imam is not righteous then he must be changed.
''MY ANSWER:im sorry ,the criteria of a rightfull imamate is Ismah,If That Imamate happens to be a Monarchy,then it is still a rightfull imamate,because they are appointed by Allah(SWT),and Have Ismah.
Also Dawood(a.s)And sulayman(a.s) Had Whats known as a Kingship.
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
فَهَزَمُوهُمْ بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ وَقَتَلَ دَاوُودُ جَالُوتَ وَآتَاهُ اللَّهُ الْمُلْكَ وَالْحِكْمَةَ وَعَلَّمَه ُُ مِمَّا يَشَاءُ وَلَوْلاَ دَفْعُ اللَّهِ النَّاسَ بَعْضَهُمْ بِبَعْض ٍ لَفَسَدَتِ الأَرْضُ وَلَكِنَّ اللَّهَ ذُو فَضْلٍ عَلَى الْعَالَمِينَ
So they routed them by Allāh's Leave and Dawûd killed Jalût , and Allāh gave him the kingdom and Al Hikmah , and taught him of that which He willed. And if Allāh did not check one set of people by means of another, the earth would indeed be full of mischief. But Allāh is full of Bounty to the 'Alamīn . (Al-Baqarah 2:251)
The Qu'ran states ''Wa waritha sulaymani Dawood''Fatima al-Zahra(SWS)Used this Verse as proof Agaisnt the Usurpers!
The difference is Allah Said He made Dawood a Khalifah in the Earth,and thus his Kingship was Legitimate.
Nepotism would be :
two people have the same Attributtes,i.e. those Attributtes you mentioned in the quran for the Imams(One of them is Ismah and Nass!),But you Choose the Sayyid above the non-Sayyid SIMPLY BECAUSE OF HIS LINEAGE.
and that is what zaydi's Are doing Vis-a-Vis other people who claim the imamate!
also imamate doesnt have to neccasserily Father to son,as is the Case Between Hasan and husayn.the difference is they were appointed by allah,had the will(Wasayah)Sword,shield,authentic manuscript of the quran(Kitab al-Quran Al-Thabit),and Ismah wich is the basis for the imamate According to The Hadith of al-Baqir in Da'a''im al-Islam.
he also mentions he must be the oldest son,however Qadhi Nu'man Explains this is a allusion to Something Else,and the Hadith could have been possibly Ommitted,or the Narrators did not narrate it completely,or the Imam was Satisfied with saying just that,as it is a allusion to the Waliy Allah(Swt).
i think it refers to Imam Isma'il(a.s),in any case as Qadhi nu'man explains,at face value the hadith seems the imam must be the eldest son of the Previous imam,but in reality this is only for a Certain case(probably imam Isma''il ibn Jafar Al-sadiq).
October 27, 2010 4:05 AM
Anonymous said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
''also, you are conflicting your self. You said that you call to your Imam. but earlier you said you didnt and that you only grow by marriage. ?????
''
what?plz reference that.that doesnt even make sence!
''In yemen we dont have influence. On the contrary we are persecuted! Ismalies have influence and money and they give big presents to the president. Zaidies are hated by all rulers and everybody knows that! which is odd that you blame zaidies ismailies don't admit to be ismailies???
Zaidies fight only the tyrants and the oppressors to put allahs command above them. they live in harmony with other groups and call them the peaceful way.
''
'
Those Isma'ilis who support the Yemeni Government are the Dawoodi bohra Jama'at.Their Da''i lives in India,Ours lives in Najran.ONLY A SMALL MINORITY of Yemeni Isma'ilis(maybe 60,000)Are Dawoodi bohra Jama''at and even many of them are Leaving because in 3 days,
the dawoodi bohra Da''i wants them to:
1.Stop growing the leaf called Qat
2.Wear Indian Clothes,i.e. a White Outfit ,and a Golden Taqiyah!
3.To put the name''bohra''on all their shops
4.To Take on Indian culture,speak a mix of gujurati and arabic called Lisan Al-Dawa'at,Send their children to India,and Eat Indian Food at the Thaal.
the Na'ib of this Dawoodi bohra Da''i warned him,the yemenis are very close their their culture and will not adopt indian Culture,but this Da''i was Arrogant hearted,so he fired this Na''ib,and now many Dawoodi Bohra Jama''at Families are leaving this Orginization!
Sulaymani's on the other hand belong to a different Jama''at,we both belong to the Tayyibi School,but follow different Da'is,we have different history,and the isma'ili sulaymaniyah are most of Arab Isma'ilis,and in Saudi Arabia,and in Yemen(Manakha,Haraz),they are not political and have nothing to do with the Yemeni government!
The Dawoodi Bohra Da´´i is very Corrupt and yes he Bribes leaders!
October 27, 2010 4:13 AM
Anonymous said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
George W.bush sent their Da'i a letter of congragulation!he is openly Welcome by the Sa''udi government!
here is Free-mason Kafir enemy of allah Prince charles,prince of Wales charles meeting the Dawoodi Bohras'!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/royalty/4514334/Prince-Charles-and-Camilla-visit-the-Dawoodi-Bohra-Muslim-mosque-in-Northolt-north-London.html
Try and compare this to Our Da'i who is Under House Arrest!
here is Information about their Jama'ah and Tayyibi Beleifs: :en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawoodi_Bohra -
Here is a Pic of their Da''i :en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawoodi_Bohra -
Compare this with our Da''i and Sulaymaniyah :
www.buzzle.com/.../freedom-and -respect-for-the-rights-of-the -tyrannized-ismailis-of-najran -saudi-arabia.html -
Here is the human rights Watch Report :http://www.hrw.org/en/node/751 97/section/7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =-yHkKr8WaR8 T''''Najran: History,Pride and Great people '' .
http://www.youtube.com/watch? v=ZIoeCVaE1Lc Al-Aan Palace ( Makrami Palace)
Why Wahabi make lying,cheating videos agaisnt us if we support their regime?
:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjNkJgVV9Nc
جرائم الشيعة الاسماعيلية2/2
this video,like most things Wahabi, lie,because shaykh Makrami(R.A)Only make peace between the different Tribes in the Region of Najran
See this(if you read arabic) :
http://www.okhdood.com/?act=artc&id=1563 دعم أمير المنطقة وشفاعة المكرمي ترسخ الصلح بين آل قريشة و آل سنان ...
or this forum where wahabi says we are kafir!
www.dd-sunnah.net/forum/showthread.php?t=84350 -
also see this Article on how the Saudis are trying to releashe a Campaign to attack the fatimids,and arab hsitorians admit all bad stuff about the fatimids is False!
http://www.okhdood.com/?act=artc&id=5913
Arab historian admits Saudi propoganda is False
http://www.okhdood.com/?act=artc&id=1445
because mu'ammar qaddafi says fatimid state nshoudl eb revived:
(english narticles)
themoornextdoor.wordpress.com/.../qaddafi-the-fatimid/ -
http://www.yanabi.com/forum/PrintTopic194669.aspx
Libyan Leader Mu'ammar Qadhafi: All North Africa Is Shiite
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4iv08JOwCk
Qadhafi: Leadership is for AhlulBayt - North Africa is Shia
so you see we do not support any wahabis,or their governments,may allah curse them,and may allah curse all those who support them!
wahabis are kufaar,and that is Evident!
October 27, 2010 4:58 AM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
''''''All you gave me from the quran are attributes not names. This tells us that to know who to follow depends on their attributes.
''Exactly,Thats what ive been Trying to Say!Notice i gave attributtes directly form the Quran:Nass from allah(SWT),Ismah,and from the ahdith the will!
and the FINE POINT:
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
سُنَّةَ اللَّهِ فِي الَّذِينَ خَلَوْا مِنْ قَبْلُ ۖ وَلَنْ تَجِدَ لِسُنَّةِ اللَّهِ تَبْدِيل
you will never find a change in the sunnah of Allah!
''''Imam Zaid has more Ahadith than Albaqir and there is an Ayah to show which Imam is to be followed.
The prophet once looked at Zayd ibn Harithah, cried, and said "The martyr in the sake of Allah, The crucified of my people, The oppressed from my progeny, his name is thus." Then the prophet pointed at Zayd ibn Harithah and said "Come closer to me, your name became more dear to me because it is the same as my dear child (Zaid.)"
''Imam Muhammad al-Baqir narrated: "The Holy Prophet put his sacred hand on Husayn bin Ali's back and said: 'O Husayn, it will not be long until a man will be born among your descendants. He will be called Zaid; he will be killed as a martyr. On the day of resurrection, he and his companions will enter heaven, setting their feet on the necks of the people.'
''
'
MY ANSWER:Masha'allah,Tabarakallah,
Allah Says:
اَ إِكْرَاه ََ فِي الدِّينِ ۖ قَدْ تَبَيَّنَ الرُّشْدُ مِنَ الغَيِّ ۚ فَمَنْ يَكْفُرْ بِالطَّاغُوتِ وَيُؤْمِنْ بِاللَّهِ فَقَدِ اسْتَمْسَكَ بِالْعُرْوَةِ الْوُثْقَى لاَ انفِصَامَ لَهَا ۗ وَاللَّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيم
(Quran surah al-Baqarah 2.256 )Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in God hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And God heareth and knoweth all things.
I love these words:'' قَدْ تَبَيَّنَ الرُّشْدُ مِنَ الغَيِّ ۚ ''
''Truth stands out clear from Error''
in all of your ''proofs''and all the zaydi ''proofs''ive studied on the topic of Zayd's(a.s)Imamate there is ABSOLUTLY No mention of Imamate,it is interesting Zaydi''s quote this when it has no mention of any imamate!
also we respect Zayd(R.A),Qadhi nu''man sees him as a Respectable Narrator,and he Narrates Hadith From him.
We are not like Twelvers who make Takfir on Zayd(R.A),they also Said Imam Isma''il(a.s) was a Adulterer,Alcoholic,and Blashphemer,only to advance the claims of their own False Imams!
this is the offical view of the Twelvers on imam Isma'il(a.s)
it still exists in thier books,and recently some Marja's changed it!
October 27, 2010 5:29 AM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
''Brother: telling westerners you are atheist is not necessary. you should be proud and call them to our religion.
''Thank you for Youu Advice Akhi :)Áfter having lived in a place where people Misunderstand muslims,for 6 Years,i decided not to be open about it,America is a Great place,Americans are very open to Islam,however used to live in a country sidwhere theres no outlook towards different religions,so i decided to be quiet about it,
al-Hamdulillah by the Grace of allah and His Prophet and His Representative,i have managed to Bring 2 people to islam,who said their shahada Recently.(i didnt bring them but they Give me credit for it ,allah Brought Them)
just like the Imams(a.s)Calling people to allah in secret.
you would understand if you were in my position Akhi :)
and Thank you,one day i shall hope to Study with the Zaydi's Insha'Allah(SWT).
لْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ رَبِّ الْعَالَمِين
October 27, 2010 5:36 AM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
I Think its also misleading to Say :''Zaidies fight only the tyrants and the oppressors to put allahs command above them. they live in harmony with other groups and call them the peaceful way.''
The Banu Zurayq,would Disagree you see,they were a Akk Tribe,Sunni's,Everyone knows the Tihama Tribes never Submitted to anyone,and because they were Ahl Ul-Sunna they didnt reconzie the Zaydi imaamte,Well Your Imam ahmed Put them all in his prison and killed almost all of their tribe,when the people from Hudaydah would come to Bab Al-Sana'a they would all be stopped to see how to pronounce a certain word (i think the people from tihama pronounce the ''gh''as ''Q'')and depending on their accents,they would be taken away and killed.
one of your imams also tried to make the Jewish Community Convert To Islam,so when they refused,he deported them to the Tihama,and when it was realized without the Jews,theyre would be no silversmiths,they mkvwed to Sana'a EnMasse.
they Isma'íliyah were also eprsecuted by your Imam,becaus we helped the Ottomans,they were more liberal to our Math-hab,and were Starved out,and forced to move from their homeland in najran to Haraz,and it was because of this the Dawoodi bohra Da'waa had to move to India!Zaydis still beleive that isma'iliyah commit Orgies in the night,and narrate a false story about Ali ibn Fadl(wich was not even a follower of Fatimi imams but later became a Qarmati and was one of our worst enemies!) and some nights of pleasure!this was spread by your imam to demonize isma''ilis.in fact many of the misunderstandings against The Isma'iliyah come from your imams Time!and sufis were otulawed from practicing their religion too!
the real tolerant were the fatimids,and anyone who studies history knows the fatimids were advanced in this regard.
the Ibdhi abandoned theyre Violent eleifs,and are now a tolerant Sect,i think its time Zaydi Intellectuals/A'immah do the Same !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
October 27, 2010 12:56 PM
Zabarah said...
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم,
First I would like to congratulate you on turning two people into Islam. the ultimate truth that has no alternative. May allah reward you paradise.
I will not go into bickering and fighting over what our Imams did and what your Imams did.I can give you things about your history but I choose inshallah not to. I fear that will get us into hurting each other and that is not why we are having this discussions.
I want to address your hadith that you are saying is proof of albagir appointment.
lets look at the hadith:
قول النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم لجابر بن عبد الله الأنصاري: إنك ستعيش حتى ترى رجلا من أولادي اسمه اسمي يبقر العلم بقرا فإذا لقيته فأقره مني السلام فلقيه جابر وأقرأه السلام من رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم، ومات جابر بعد ذلك بقليل.
The prophet mohamad (peace be upon him and his progoney) said to Aljabeer ibn abdullah alansari: You will live until you see a man from my children his name is the same as mine he will break into knowledge and will know it well and when you do tell him my greeting (salam.) And jaber died soon after that.
This hadith is proof that the prophet mohamad was devinly communicated by allah when jaber will die. proof of the prophets message. This hadith shows how knowledgeable Mohammad albageer. but this does not show direct appointment that this man is the Imam that you indicated. we hold Imam mohamad albager in high regard and we say he is an imam of ilm.
but lets look the hadith of Imam Zaid Ibn ALi:
وفي ذلك أن النبي محمد نظر يوماً إلى زيد بن حارثة فبكى وقال: « المقتول في اللّه المصلوب من أمتي المظلوم من أهل بيتي سمي هذا » وأشار إلى زيد بن حارثة، ثم قال: « أدن مني يا زيد زادك اسمك عندي حباً فإنك سمي الحبيب من ولدي (زيد) ».
" The prophet once looked at Zayd ibn Harithah, cried, and said "The martyr in the sake of Allah, The crucified of my people, The oppressed from my progeny, his name is thus." Then the prophet pointed at Zayd ibn Harithah and said "Come closer to me, your name became more dear to me because it is the same as my dear child (Zaid.)"
here it shows how dear Imam Zaid was to the prophet and close to him. showing that Imam Zaid did actually choose the right path. A path of true jehad and salvation.
October 27, 2010 8:56 PM
Zabarah said...
Then read the next hadith
ورُوي عن أبي جعفر محمد بن علي، عن النبي محمد، أنه قال للحسين: « يخرج من صلبك رجل يقال له: زيد، يتخطى هو وأصحابه يوم القيامة رقاب الناس غراً محجلين، يدخلون الجنة أجمعين بغير حساب ».
Imam Muhammad al-Baqir narrated: "The Holy Prophet put his sacred hand on Husayn bin Ali's back and said: 'O Husayn, it will not be long until a man will be born among your descendants. He will be called Zaid; he will be killed as a martyr. On the day of resurrection, he and his companions will enter heaven, setting their feet on the necks of the people.'"
Here the prophet says that Imam Zaid has choosen the right path and this path lead to Jannah.
Then he continues that Imam Zaid and his COMPANIONS. Who has COMPANIONS? An Imam has companions a prophet has companions. Companions follow on the foot steps of their Imam and leader. in this case Imam Zaid. and what Imam Zaid and those who follow him will go to jannah stepping on the necks of the people.
Everybody at the time of imam zaid know of his knowledge and his uniqueness at the time. they even called him friend of the Quran.
Imam Albagir and Imam Jafer Alsadeg Also Attest to that and tell people to follow him.
Everyone knows Imam Zaid Called for his Imam. He was Imam of knowledge and Jehad.
Allah make us from the companions of Imam Zaid. Amen.
Brother Ali, concerning Kabeer there is more than seven and maybe sister zaida can have an article about that. because as I wish I can write lots of replies on your concerns but I will stick to heart of the issue. Imam ali has strugled with his nafs too and that is we he has this high degree.
Concerning allah choosing who will become Imam. you are correct that nothing will happen until allah wishes. ahlul bait can try to grasp knoweldge and thrive for better ummah but if Allah does not permit these people from ahlul bayt he will not give them the ability to reach that level and other he will. and allah rewards on the intention.
like a man wanting to be Dr. a man chooses to be a dr. but if Allah does not permit him to be a dr. he will not be a dr. no matter what he does.
and for all they will punished and rewarded
according to their intention and allah the almighty knows what are in the hearts of men.
My dear Brother Ali, you have many contradictions, if you look back to your previous comments and compare you might recognize them.
October 27, 2010 8:57 PM
Zabarah said...
Sorry typing mistakes I have done
What I wrote
"Everyone knows Imam Zaid Called for his Imam"
what I meant
"Everyone knows Imam Zaid Called for his own Imamite. As in follow him as an Imam"
What I wrote
"
ورُوي عن أبي جعفر محمد بن علي، عن النبي محمد، أنه قال للحسين: « يخرج من صلبك رجل يقال له: زيد، يتخطى هو وأصحابه يوم القيامة رقاب الناس غراً محجلين، يدخلون الجنة أجمعين بغير حساب ».
Imam Muhammad al-Baqir narrated: "The Holy Prophet put his sacred hand on Husayn bin Ali's back and said: 'O Husayn, it will not be long until a man will be born among your descendants. He will be called Zaid; he will be killed as a martyr. On the day of resurrection, he and his companions will enter heaven, setting their feet on the necks of the people.'"
What I meant
"
ورُوي عن أبي جعفر محمد بن علي، عن النبي محمد، أنه قال للحسين: « يخرج من صلبك رجل يقال له: زيد، يتخطى هو وأصحابه يوم القيامة رقاب الناس غراً محجلين، يدخلون الجنة أجمعين بغير حساب ».
Imam Muhammad al-Baqir narrated: "The Holy Prophet put his sacred hand on Husayn bin Ali's back and said: 'O Husayn, it will not be long until a man will be born among your descendants. He will be called Zaid; he will be killed as a martyr. On the day of resurrection, he and all of his companions will enter heaven with out judgement, setting their feet on the necks of the people with great pride.'"
October 27, 2010 9:06 PM
Anonymous said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
Even Though i have Proven that our Imams Did the Jihad,and Called people to themselves:
1.This is not a Neccassery Perequisite for Imamate,According to the Hadiths of Imam Al-Baqir(a.s)
2.the quran says those who Strive in the way of allah are prefered over others,but in the very same ayah defines it not as fighting or combat,but with their'' Wealth and their selves''
3.the quran mentions Nothing about Calling people to Yourself,or rising up in Jihad as a Perequisite For Imamate.
it rather mentions,:the Nass,The Ismah,The knowledge,and the Access to Verses.
4.Hadhrat Luqman,had no Following but his son .
5.As far as Our Knowledge is concerned Hadhrat Nabi Khidhr,did not Call people Towards himself,in Fact he Remained Hidden.Only Musa(a.s)had Access to him.Just As Only Our Da'i has access to the Imam(a.s).
6.Ali did have supernatural powers,you are correct that he admitted how He learned From the Prophet,But Do You know How?The Prophet Put his Hand on His Breast and Revealed all the Hidden knowledge of all Matters to him!and this is in a hadith from ali itself.
As Far as We Are concerned,This Happened Before Ali's Succession to The position of ''''Wasi'''',meaning he was not yet Appointed to the position of Wasi,after his Appointment(Nass)at Ghadeer Khum,He got the Attributtes of the Wasi,however it must be Noted He Was Always Infallible.this is similar to how Muhammad did not Have Access to The angel Gabriel Before His Appointment to the Nubbuwwah At The Cave of Al-hirah,or any prophet for that matter,or any Imam Before his Appointment(nass).
finally why did Allah Say إِنَّا نَحْنُ نُحْيِ الْمَوْتَى وَنَكْتُبُ مَا قَدَّمُوا وَآثَارَهُمْ وَكُلَّ شَيْءٍ أحْصَيْنَاه ُُ فِي إِمَام ٍ مُبِين
Surely We shall resurrect the dead, We are recording all that they are sending ahead and that they are leaving behind. We have recorded everything in an Manifest Imam.[36.12]
(the words are :Inna Nahnu Nuhyi Al-Mawta Wa Naktubu Ma Qaddama Wa 'Atharahum Wa Kulla Shay'in 'Hsaynahu Fī 'Imamin Mubīn)its funny nhwo peop;e translate it as''open eldger''and clear book''
7.The quran makes it Clear 3 shahada'at,but the Zaydis Took it out.Why?i can prove to you the quran mandates 3 shahada's
True Adhan-Ali is The Trustee of allah علياً ولي الل
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZAhxhaPOcg
8.Imam Hussain Had the Skies Cry blood for Him,for 3 days,when he got his Martyrdom,this is recorded by non-muslims in far away places!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On the day of the martyrdom of Husayn the sky rained
blood . . .
See
Thakhaaer al-Uqba pp 144, 145, 150.
Al-Sawaaeq al-Muhriqah pp 116, 192. . . . . .
(on the day Husayn was killed) there was not a stone which was not
lifted but underneath it was found blood . . .
-
Al-Sawaaeq al-Muhriqah pp 116, 192.
Tathkirat-ul-Khawaas p 284,
all sunni sources)
The chroniclers in the reference such as the above record theses
reports from people who were in Medina, Karbala, Kufa, Damascus,
(Jerusalem)
In the Year of the battle of karbala ,Christian Monks in Britain Have amazingly Recorded:
685 A.D. In this year in Britain it rained blood, and milk and butter
were turned into blood.
''''The above is recorded in:
The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle,
Translated, edited by G. N. Garmonsway,
Professor of English,
Kings College, London
ISBN 0-460-87038-6I
9.Ali also had a similar miracle Happen,When he Was born in The Ka'aba :
Imam Ali A.S. and the Holy Kaa'ba-an ongoing miracle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B-vrH_JPs4
October 28, 2010 4:30 AM
Anonymous said...
10.what is up with qiyas?is this a bida?i dont want to know wether you consider it good or bad.if it is a bida,then Your imams Are in The Fire Because Allah's Messenger Cursed The Innovattor,Now how can your the majority of Your Imams Have Represented The Prophet when they were Innovattors?Plz Answer!!!!!!!!!!!!!
11.what about Ijtihad?Did the prophet not Say:''My Quran and Ahl Ul-Bayt'',and furthermore these manmade techniques are not a lawfull source to determine what is Religion?(you can also say the Calender of our Da'i Al-Kirmani was a Bida,But this was based on the quran,and how the quran tells us to mandate the months,and how the Quran tells us to measure the Days namely FIXED:
(2.184)أَيَّاما ً مَعْدُودَات ٍ ۚ فَمَنْ كَانَ مِنْكُمْ مَرِيضاً أَوْ عَلَى سَفَر ٍ فَعِدَّة ٌ مِنْ أَيَّامٍ أُخَرَ ۚ وَعَلَى الَّذِينَ يُطِيقُونَه ُُ فِدْيَة ٌ طَعَامُ مِسْكِين ٍ ۖ فَمَنْ تَطَوَّعَ خَيْرا ً فَهُوَ خَيْر ٌ لَه ُُ ۚ وَأَنْ تَصُومُوا خَيْر ٌ لَكُمْ ۖ إِنْ كُنتُمْ تَعْلَمُونَ
)
the prophet said we would follow the Jews and christians even if they were to go in a lizard hole,now the Jews also had ijtihad and their Rabbis corrupted their deen by this way!theyre books of ijtihad are called Mishnah,and they contain the Fatawa (legal decrees)of the Rabbis,and not any proof from torah or the oral tradition!
12.Sayyed al-houthi is not reconized by most Zaydis as a Imam,in fact many Zaydi Families have Denounced him.for creating Trouble.and since 1969,there was no imam of yours,only since 2004,did you have a eligible candidate for the Imamate.What Happened to all Those Zaydis From then until Now,As the Messenger of Allah Stated:''He Who dies without Reconizing the imam of his Time,Dies the Death of Jahiliyah''????????????
answer all My Questions One By One
October 28, 2010 4:35 AM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
i apprecciatte you discussing with me,but when you make a Contradiction i point it out,when i make a ontradiction,you dont point it out.point it out if your Truth full :)
cocnerning Zayd(R.A),i really dont know much about him,i know the opinions of sunni scholars was he performed Taqiyah when saying to not curse the Usurpers(l.a),as a Maslaha(diplomacy) to Quell fitna and Unite The ammah(sunnis).
the hadiths of him and his martyrdom,i dont know wether we isma'ilis have them or not,or if theyre authentic,i have only the Second volume of the English translation of the Da'a'im al-islam wich is only Fiqh,and i need the first that deals with Aqidah,and Qadhi nu'man also has a book on history wich contains this Information.
to know such issues and the Isma'ili stance on it i need to purchase The books Written By Qadhi nu'man such as:Kitab iftitah al-da‘wa wa-ibtida’ al-dawla ,Ikhtilaf usul al-madhahib(diferences between Schools of Law) ,kitab al-majalis wa’l-musayarat(The Book of Sessions and Excursions),Kitab al-himma fi adab atba‘ al-a’imma .
all in arabic.and i dont speak fluent arabic.
in any case,Those Hadiths Zaydiyah have in Zaid,do not mention any Imamate,Secondly Zayd believed in Qiyas,wich is Bida,allah overlooks peoples sins,the hadith of al-Baqir i am refering to is in Da'a'im al-Islam,Ali on his Last Breath mentions the appointment of al-Baqir:
October 28, 2010 4:44 AM
Ali said...
This post has been removed by the author.
October 28, 2010 4:49 AM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
Hadith lawh: Sheikh Saduq states in his book Amali (page 353) - Imam Jafer Sadiq (pbuh) narrates that one day Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) said to Jabir bin Abdullah Ansari "you will stay alive until you meet my son Mohammad bin Ali bin Hosein bin Ali bin Abi Talib (pbuh)who is mentioned in the Torah as baqir. Give him my salutation (salam) when you meet him". One day when Jabir visited Imam Zain-ul-Abideen (pbuh), he saw the young boy sitting next to the Imam (pbuh). He addressed the young boy and asked him to come closer and show his back. Then he proclaimed that by God, that young boy had the features and traits of the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh). Then he asked Imam Sajjad (pbuh) who the young boy was and Imam (pbuh) replied that he was his son and the successor to the Imamate and his name was Mohammad baqir (pbuh). Hearing this, Jabir rose up and kissed the young Imam and said "Son of Prophet (pbuh), may I be taken ransom for you, accept the salutation (salam) of Prophet (pbuh). He asked me to convey it to you". Imam Jafer Sadiq (pbuh) states that his father burst into tears on hearing this and said "Jabir my salutation to my grand father until this sky and earth survives. You conveyed the salam of my grandfather to me so I convey my salam to you as well".
secondly there are also ahadith of the ''matryrdom of umar''and ''the martyrdom of uthman''according to sunnis propheised by the Messenger
however since we know they were kiled with just cause this contradicts these hadiths,or theyre INTERPRETATIONS anyway
same with zayd,the imamate is by nass,it has ismah,it has ilm,and zayd was not appointed by nass,he had no weapon or sheild,imam baqir had the weapon and sheild.
so we cannot accept your interpretation,not to mention the hadiths contain NO mention,explicit or implicit of a imamate for Zayd Ibn ali!
October 28, 2010 4:54 AM
Ali said...
(Kitab Da'a''im al-islam Kitab Al-Wasaya Chp 14 Book of the Pillars of Islam book of wills 342-350 english translation)
Also the Twelvers narrate a hadith about the Killing of umar:"Hudhayfah ibn al-Yaman narrates: Once on the 9th of Rabi' al-awwal I went to Rasulullah. I saw Ameerul Mu'mineen Ali Murtaza, Imam Hasan and Imam Husain also there. All were busy eating. Rasulullah smiling in great happiness said to Hasan and Husain: 'Sons, today is the day on which Allah will destroy your enemy and the enemy of your grandfather, and Allah will accept the curse of your mother (Fatimah). Eat sons, eat! Today is the day that Allah accepts the deeds of your Shia (partisans), and beloved. Eat sons, eat! Today is the day when the power of your enemy and the enemy of your grandfather will be broken and annihilated in the dust. Eat sons, eat! Today is the day when Fir'on (i.e. the Pharaoh or tyrant) to my Ahl al-Bayt, the one who will oppress and persecute them and who will usurp their rights, will be destroyed. Hudhayfah said: I exclaimed: 'O Rasulullah! Will there be such an evil person in your Ummah, who will perpetrate such villainy?' Rasulullah replied: 'O Hudhayfah! Among the munafiqs (hypocrites) there will be one idol who will be the leader of the group of munafiqeen. He will carry in his hand the whip of cruelty and injustice; he will prevent people from the Path of truth; he will alter the Qur'an; he will change my Sunnah and my ways; he will oppress my Wasi (Appointee) Ali bin Abi Talib and he will deprive my daughter, Fatimah of her rights. My daughter will then curse him. Allah Ta'ala will accept her la'nat (curse) and prayers.' Hudhayfah then said: 'O Rasulullah! Why do you not supplicate to Allah to destroy this Fir'on and oppressor in your very lifetime?' Rasulullah replied: 'O Hudhayfah! I do not regard it proper to interfere in the decisions of Allah Ta'ala... But, I have requested Allah Ta'ala to grant excellence and superiority to that day when that oppressor and Fir'on is dispatched to Jahannum (i.e. when he is destroyed). That day should be decreed superior to all other days so that honoring of that day becomes a Sunnah for my Shiane Ahle Bait (i.e. partisans of my family). Allah Ta'ala then sent this Wahi (revelation): 'It has already been decreed in My Eternal Knowledge that the usurping Munafiqs will persecute you and your family. They will inflict many hardships on you and your family. O Muhammad! Ali has been awarded your rank because of these (impending) hardships which will be perpetrated on him by the usurper of his rights and the Fir'on of this Ummah. I have commanded the angels of the 7 heavens to rejoice and celebrate Eid [disambiguation needed] on the day he (i.e. Umar) is killed - this is for the sake of the partisans and lovers of the Ahle Bait. I have commanded the recording Angels to cease recording the sins of My servants for 3 days from that day. This is in honor of that day (on which Umar will be murdered). O Muhammad! Three days grace and permission in general to commit sins have been given in your honor and in honor of your appointee (Ali) ... Every year on this day, will I free from Jahannam (Hell) thousands of your Shias.'
October 28, 2010 5:05 AM
Ali said...
Hudhayfah says: 'After Rasulullah said this, he arose and left the room and went to the house of Umm Salamah. After having heard this talk of Rasulullah I was convinced of Umar's kufr. There remained no doubt in this. Finally, after the demise of Rasulullah, I witnessed the fitnah [disambiguation needed] which he (Umar) created. He exhibited the kufr which was concealed in him. He reneged from Islam and usurped the Imamate [disambiguation needed] and Khilafat. To achieve this end he adopted the most shameless methods. He altered the Qur'an and burnt the holy house of Rasulullah. He pleased the Jews, Christians and the Magians and displeased Fatimah and the entire Ahle Bait, and he conspired to have Ameerul Mu'mineen (i.e. Ali) murdered. He made haram (forbidden) what Allah had made halal (permissible) and legalized what Allah had made unlawful. He slammed the door against the face and stomach of Fatimah. Hudhayfah then said: 'Finally Allah Ta'ala accepted the curses of His Holy Nabi (i.e. Prophet Muhammad) and his daughter in regard to this Munafiq (i.e. Umar) and had him killed at the hands, of his killer (Abu-Lu'lu'ah). May there be the Rahmat (Mercy) of Allah on his (Umar's) killer (i.e. Abu-Lu'lu'ah)
October 28, 2010 5:07 AM
Anonymous said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
i can also show many such hadiths.
YOU SAID:
''
ورُوي عن أبي جعفر محمد بن علي، عن النبي محمد، أنه قال للحسين: « يخرج من صلبك رجل يقال له: زيد، يتخطى هو وأصحابه يوم القيامة رقاب الناس غراً محجلين، يدخلون الجنة أجمعين بغير حساب ».
Imam Muhammad al-Baqir narrated: "The Holy Prophet put his sacred hand on Husayn bin Ali's back and said: 'O Husayn, it will not be long until a man will be born among your descendants. He will be called Zaid; he will be killed as a martyr. On the day of resurrection, he and his companions will enter heaven, setting their feet on the necks of the people.'"
What I meant
"
ورُوي عن أبي جعفر محمد بن علي، عن النبي محمد، أنه قال للحسين: « يخرج من صلبك رجل يقال له: زيد، يتخطى هو وأصحابه يوم القيامة رقاب الناس غراً محجلين، يدخلون الجنة أجمعين بغير حساب ».
Imam Muhammad al-Baqir narrated: "The Holy Prophet put his sacred hand on Husayn bin Ali's back and said: 'O Husayn, it will not be long until a man will be born among your descendants. He will be called Zaid; he will be killed as a martyr. On the day of resurrection, he and all of his companions will enter heaven with out judgement, setting their feet on the necks of the people with great pride.'"
MY ANSWER:
Brother,after the revolt of zayd,his companions split up in 6 sects,
1.Abu'l Jarud Ziyad ibn Abi Ziyad
2.Sulayman ibn Jarir
3.Kathir an-Nawa Al-Abtar
4.Abu Nu'aym al-Fadl ibn al-Dukayn
5.Abd al-Samad his sect the khalafiyyah beelived ilm was nspirational not ''earned''they believed the mahdi would riase from Abd al-samad's Line.they beelived the number 5 was holy,and thus the name ''5ers ''was missappaled to zaydis.
6.Khashabbiyah,they believed a imam was legitmate no matter what he did ,and that if 2 ''imams'' fight you should not take any side!
(secondly among his companions were Abdullah al-Aflah(R.A)and Musa al-Kadhim(a.s)and yes they are in the highest level of paradise!)
and all had different religions!itis the sulaymaniyah wich survives today,but even the Rassiya were jarudiyah.i think Zayd's followers Ascribed imamah to him after his Shahada!i didnt witness it.and i have no proofs he claimed imamate,in any case it would not matter anyway.secondly Imam Al-mahdi bi'llah was also Prophisied by the Prophet(SWS),but when putting forward proof of Fatimi Imamate i use Qu'ran and not the traditions of my Math-hab!
Ali al-sulayhi whos dynasty would advance the Tayyibi cause,was also Predicted by al-imam Jafar Al-Sadiq(a.s),ali al-sulayhi was converted becaue a Da'i informed him how he was predicted to become a Great ruler in the Way of Allah-subhanahu Wa Ta'ala-in arostotliean treatise he had.
i can also bring such hadiths for anyone i want to!the fact is we have been given The Criterion(Al-furqan)to distinguish between right and wrong,and im Afraid the Isma'ili imamah is well proven from the Quran!
if not answer my questions.
instead of repeating the same hadith over and over again.
لْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ رَبِّ الْعَالَمِين
October 28, 2010 5:28 AM
Anonymous said...
Above all, as a member of the da`wa, acting directly under the guidance of the Imam of
the time, it was al-Kirmani’s job to teach. He and his contemporary da`is were working
towards educating the community in issues of intellectual importance. “By [al-
Kirmani’s] efforts, a considerable degree of unity prevailed and the solidarity of the
da`wa was restored.” The Tayyibi da`i Idris says of him:
“He [al-Kirmani] came as an abundant rainfall to the pasture after its being
barren. By his explanation the black and gloomy darkness vanished and by his
clear knowledge and light of guidance the superiority of the Imams became
evident.”
October 28, 2010 6:30 AM
Anonymous said...
al-Kirmani was the hujjat al-
Iraqayn so-called for his Influence in Iraq and Iran.Wrote many works such as :
1.Rahat al-Aql,
2. al-Masabih fi lthbat al-Imama
3. Ma'asim al-Huda wa al-isaba fi Tafdil Ali Ala al-Sahaba
4. Tanbih al-Hadi wa al-Mustahdi
5. al-Aqwal al-Dahabiyya
6. Ma'atim al-Din
7. al-Riyad
8. Fasi al-Khitab
9. A collection of 11 Risalas
10 al-Risala alDurriya.
11. Risalat al-Nazm
12. al-Risala al-Radiya
13. al-Mudia
14. al-Lazima
15. al-Rawda fi al-Azal
16. al-Zahira
17. al-Hawiya
18. Mabasim al-Bisharat
19. al-Wa'iza
20. al-Kafiya
21. Khaza'in al-Adilia
22. al-Fihrist
23. al-Ma'ad
24. al-Maqadir wa al-Hada'iq.
25. Taj a]-Uqui
26. Maydan al-Aql
27. Alim al-Din
28. al-Layliyya
29. al-Nafdh wa al-lizam
30. lklil al-Nafs
31. al-Maqayis
32. al-Majaiis al-baghdadiya wa al-Basriyya
33. al-Shi'ra
34. al-Ta'wa Lyyia
35. al - Mufawaz
36. al-Ma'arii.
i shall give a explanation of the theology of kirmani especially how it is very controversial.
stay tuned
-ali
October 28, 2010 6:39 AM
Anonymous said...
1. The conveyer of the Message, or the Proclaimer (an-natiq). His function is to procalim the revelation (al-tanzil). He corresponds to the First Intellect and to the sphere of spheres.
2. The Foundation (al-asas). He is so called because he is the foundation of the esoteric interpretation of the revelation (at-tawil). This interpretation reveals the inner knowledge of the revelation (ilm al-batin) which is the true meaning of the divine Message. He corresponds to the Second Intellect, i.e the Inclusive Soul, and to the spshere of the fixed stars.
3. The Imam. His function is to carry on this inner knowledge and guide the Community along its line. He corresponds to the Third Intellect and to the sphere of Saturn." etc
Allah Says in surah zukhruf ayah 28:
وَجَعَلَهَا كَلِمَة ً بَاقِيَة ً فِي عَقِبِه ِِ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَرْجِعُونَ
"And He made it a word enduring among His posterity.
and allah Says in surah nisa 124:
يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ قَدْ جَاءَكُمْ بُرْهَان ٌ مِنْ رَبِّكُمْ وَأَنزَلْنَا إِلَيْكُمْ نُورا ً مُبِينا
O men, a proof has now come to you from your Lord;We have sent down to you a manifest light
his Will or Word of God, which Ahmad Hamid al-Din al-Kirmani calls the First Intellect (al-aql al-awwal), and the First Existent (al-mawjud al-awwal) is the First Cause of existence; thus it necessarily exists. Al-Kirmani says :
( Rahat al-aql p.59. )
"If the existence of the first is not established, the second would not exist. And if the existence of the second is not established, the third would not exist. Therefore, the second and third only exist by reason of the existence of what is first to them, and a cause to their existence. The existence of the third, the fourth and other existing beings is, therefore, a proof for the existence of a first to them, and a cause without which nothing would exist. By the existence of these, the existence of a first principle is proven, from which existence other existing beings resulted. This first principle we call the First Intellect or the First Existent beings resulted. This first principle we call the first Intellect or the First Existent whose existence is not by itself but rather by its creation by the Transcendent, may He be praised."
al-Kirmani says:
(rahat al-aql p.71)
(this First Intellect came into existence by virtue of the existence of God. Being God's Will, this First Intellect came into existence by God's Power. "For Intellect", as al-Kirmani says "is that being which was issued into existence out of the Power from which Origination resulted. This origination is the reality of the Intellect and its essence"
and he also says the act of ibda is not separate from al-mubdi
He Says:
(Rahat al-aql p.73)
"Since by saying Origination we imply that it is one thing, and by that which was originated we imply that it is two things, namely Origination and that which became originated by the act of Origination, for the act is one thing and the result of the act is another thing; and since it is absurd that anything could be prior to Origination or else Origination would become like matter which receives it, and this would lead to an existence which is not issued out of the Transcendental Quiddity, may He be praised, and consequently, to an existence out of which the existence of both would be issued; and this is absurd; (therefore) the Originator (the source of Origination) is both the Originated and the Origination."
October 28, 2010 7:04 AM
Anonymous said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
In contemplating himself, the First Originated Being knew that he was the Originator's Activity, the First Being. By this knowledge of himself, says al-Kirmani, a light illuminated and radiated from him as a result of the feeling happiness (ightibat) he had when he contemplated himself. This light that radiated from him is what the Ismailis call the First Emanating Being (al-munba'ith al-awwal). It is the first being that emanated from the First Intellect. Consequently, it is second in existence to the First Intellect, i.e. the First Originated Being (al-mubda al-awwal).Hence it is called the Second Intellect (al-aql ath-thani). it is alos caled the ''universal soul''(al-Nafs al-Kulliya)
Now, from the First Intellect and the Second emanated a Third Intellect. This Third intellect started to question the ontological anteriority of the First and Second Intellects. Was he not equal to them? Did he not even precede them? This led him to refuse to recognize their precedence and to respond to their call. Consequently he came to a standstill. He fell in a state of stupor which resulted in separating the Third Intellect from the rest of the Intelligible World. This distance is what is meant by time. However the Third Intellect was able to free himself from his stupor. But he found out that seven other Intellects had emanated during this state of stupor. He was delayed (takhallafa). Instead of being the Third he became now the Tenth Intellect.
These ten Intellects are in charge of the physical world (alam al-jism). The First Intellect is in charge of the sphere of spheres (falak al-aflak), the Second of the sphere of the fixed stars, the Third of the sphere of Saturn, the Fourth of that of Jupiter, the Fifth of that of Mars, the Sixth of that of the sun, the Seventh of that of Venus, the Eighth of that of Mercury, the ninth of that of the moon, and the Tenth, originally the Third Intellect, is in charge of the sub-lunary world. We must remember, however, that each Intellect is inclusive (kulli) of all the inferior ones, while each of the inferior ones is included (juz'i) in the superior ones.25
The Tenth Intellect, who has fallen down from being the Third to being the Tenth, corresponds in the sub-lunary world, i.e. the earth, of which he is in charge, to his human homologue Adam, who is said to have fallen from paradise. That is why the Ismai'ilis call him the Spiritual Adam (Adam ar-ruhani), in contrast to the "terrestrial" Adam.
(see Rahat al-aql, pp.97-98 for the references to this doctrine)
October 28, 2010 7:09 AM
Anonymous said...
Most of the Isma'ili savants of the Fatimid period consider this "terrestrial" Adam to be both the epiphanic form (mazhar) and the veil of the Spiritual Adam, i.e. the Third Intellect who became the Tenth. In the World of Religion (alam ad-din), he is the Imam. In his book Rahat al-aql al-Kirmani outlines the esoteric hierarchy of the World of Religion in which the "terrestrial" Adam holds the rank of Imam. This World of Religion consists of ten rank-holders, each corresponding respectively to one of the ten Intellects of the Intelligible World. These are: 1. the Proclaimer (an-natiq); his function is to proclaim the revelation (at-tanzil); 2. the Foundation (al-asas); his function is to interpret the revelation (at-ta'wil); he is so called because he is the foundation of the inward knowledge (ilm al-batin); 3. the Imam; he carries on this inward knowledge and leads the community; 4. the Gate (al-bab); he decides the meaning of the discourse (fasl al-khitab), i.e. he is a head teacher in the da'wa; 5. the Proof (al-hujja); he supervises the missionaries and reveals the exegesis; 6. the Missionary of the Message (da'i al-balagh); he is in charge of dialectical and philosophical teaching; 7. the Missionary General (ad-da'i al-mutlaq); he teaches the inner meaning of the doctrine; 8. the Limited Missionary (ad-da'i al-mahdud); he teaches the practical ritual services and directs the inferior functionaries; 9. the Licencee-General (al-madhun al-mutlaq); he takes the oath and the covenant (al-ahd wal mithaq) from the proselytes and teaches the preliminaries for higher knowledge (adab ad-din); 10. the Limited Licencee (al-ma'dhun al-mahdud); he is in charge of preaching the doctrine by posing questions and arguments (mukasara) in order to attract the proselytes. Thus, for al-Kirmani and other Isma'ili doctors of the Fatimid period such as as-Sijistani, the Natiq, Asas and Imam correspond respectively to their celestial archetypes: the First, Second and Third Intellects.
October 28, 2010 7:14 AM
Anonymous said...
so in simple words,the Imam is the word of God,
Adam was the first to be entrusted with that Word or Will, i.e. with the Imamate. In other words, he was willed by God to be Imam. He, in his turn, entrusted this Will or Word (the activity of the Imam) to his son, and so on. Every Imam would, in his turn, express this Will, and then entrust it to his successor, and thus this Will (the Imamate) would settle (istaqarra) and dwell (aqama) in the following Imam, and so on. Thus, the person of the Imam becomes the mustaqarr of God's Will or Word, i.e. the place in which God's Word is settled (istaqarra), as well as its muqam, i.e. the place in which God's Word dwells (aqama).
An-Nasafi, another Isma'ili da'i says in his book Kitab al-mahsul:"The Imam is the end of Existence (ghayat al-wujud)... His essence is divine, and his life is eternal... He is the end of all ends and the creator of creation."
the Famouis Yemeni Da'i of the Tayyibi community , Idris Imadudeen mention a hadith of Jabir ibn abdullah al-ansar(R.A) in Zahr al-Ma'an:I was sitting once in the presence of the Commander of the Faithful 'Ali ibn Abi Talib, Peace be on him, when there entered Salman and Jundub (Abu Dharr al-Ghifari), may God be satisfied with them. They greeted and sat down. Ali said, 'You are welcome, you, who both are faithful (wali) and sincere, and who promised their God to remain so. Verily this is necessary for every faithful (mu'min), for no one will accomplish his faith until he recognizes me really in my Luminous Substance. If he only knows me in this way, his heart will be tested by God as to the strength of his faith, and he will be content; thus he will become one knowing and seeing. The one who fails is he who doubts and is obsessed by doubts.'''
The passage goes on until Ali says:
"I have destroyed the earlier generations (al-qurun al-ula). I am the Great News (an-naba' al-azim) about which they were at variance. I am the Will of God, 'He makes the spirit (ruh) from His will descend upon any of His servants to whom He pleases to send it' (Sura XL 15)."
Then he said:
"O Salman and Jundub, verily our dead never die, and those amongst us who are killed are not killed in reality. We have not begotten and have not been begotten."
in another place he said:
"O, Salman and Jundub, I bring humanity to life and make them die, I create them, and nourish them... And the Rightful Imams from my progeny are acting in the same way, because all of us are one and the same imams manifested at all times... But with all this, we eat and drink, ... in the market place and do what we will, by the will of God, our Lord."
October 28, 2010 7:24 AM
Anonymous said...
Al-Da'i shirazi said concerning Imam mustansir in his sha'ar(poetry):
The Imam al-Mustansir, the Purity, the Lord,
"Is an evidence of God among mankind."
the Famouis yemeni Da''i of al-Mahdi ,Jafar ibn Mansur al-Yaman in his book Sar'ir an-Nutaqa, says: "It is related that Abu Dharr said, 'I have heard the commander of the Faith say: I am the face of God that He mentioned in His saying 'Wither so ever you turn, there is the face of God.' (Sura 11, 109).
Al-Da'i al-shirazi says about imam mustansir(Alayhi al-salam):"Your face is the Luminous face of God,
And your light is as a veil to His light."
Ibn Hani Says About imam al-mu'izz(alayhi al-salam)
:It is what you wish, not what fate wishes,
"Rule! You are the One, the Almighty."
Al-Imam al-Muizz in his letter to al-Hassan ibn Ahmad al-Qarmati wrote: "We are the beginning of Thought and the end of Action.''
Imam al-hakim says in his first Khutba in Masjid Al-qahira on the ascension of his imamate:"O'people, surely Allah has made us superior by the word of Imaamat. He has eternalized it in us, so that it may last until the day of doom. The one of us receives it from the other and the son inherits it from the father. This is the bounty of Allah, He gives it to whomever He wishes, and God is of bounty abounding."
October 28, 2010 7:43 AM
Anonymous said...
Imam El- Mu’izz (as) then explained Sayedna Qadhi al-nu''man(R.A) that, in true sense, intellect is the one which knows what is right and wrong and strips apart the truth from falsehood. Gaining intellect is treading on the path of Deen and Shari’at of Allaah with the guidance and the knowledge of Hujjatullaah present near you and indulging your body and soul in doing what is deemed as lawful for you and abstaining from what is forbidden for you and obeying all the obligations of the Shari’at, having respect, honour and acceptance for the Hujjatullaah.
SSayedna Qadhi al-Nu'man asked about further intricacies on the same topic to which Imaam Mu’izz (as) gave a non-verbal response of a closed smile and said, ‘O Nu’maan, always remember that whoever gains and acquires the knowledge from Allaah and his Rasool, Wasi, Imaam or Da’i, can only be termed as an ‘intellectual’. Because by learning from them, he will get the true knowledge of Allaah, His Deen and Shari’at. Whoever turns his face towards others for seeking knowledge who are not considered as the Hujjat of Allaah on this earth is ignorant and will indeed deviate from Siraat al-Mustaqeem.' Those people who claim themselves to be “ar-raasekhoona fil ‘ilm” or “ahl uz-zikr” are the Tawaghit(Idols) and Allaah has descended Curse on them. No one but RasoolAllah(saws), Mawlana ali (as) and the succession of A'immat al-Tahereen (as) from his progeny or theDu'a'a''t al-Akrameen who are the representatives of the Imaam uz-Zamaan (as) can be called as ‘ar-raasekhoona fil ‘ilm” or “ahl uz-zikr”. Indeed we can only reach to Allaah through His Hujjat on this earth. One who grasps this main trunk of the divine succession of Ambiyaa, Awsiyaa, A’immat and Du’aat will never deviate from the Ilaahi path of najaat and rahma. Undoubtedly he will be the most intellectual one.
Imaam Mu’izz (as) then continued saying that, ‘O Nu’maan, there are many people in this World who consider Haraam (forbidden) as Halaal (lawful) and vice versa. Indeed, they have never understood Allaah, the Qur’an and its interpretation.' ‘O Nu’maan, don’t you remember what Rasoolullaah (saws) said during his lifetime? He has said, ‘After me, many Ahaadeeth, Akhbaar and Riwaayat will be said about me which will ‘unusually’ be related and associated with me filled with the filth of falsehood.’ Hence if you come across such thing, put it parallel to the Qur’an. If you find it in accordance with it, then consider that it is being said by me and if you find it in contradiction with Qur’an, then consider that it is not from me.’ Each Hadeeth of Rasoolullaah (saws) runs parallel in its meaning and interpretation with the verses of the Qur’an. How can Rasoolullaah (saws) say such thing which contradicts the Qur’an? Alas! After the death of Rasoolullaah (saws), his Ahaadeeth were manipulated and doctored for the personal gain by the so called religious leaders (johalaa). The only source of the pure and original teachings of, both, Qur’an and Ahaadeeth of Rasoolullaah (saws) remained with Ameer ul-Mumineen Mawlana Ali (as) and A’immat-al-Tahereen (as) after him.
(P.S to Zabarah:im sorry your imamate runs contradicarary to the Qu'ran,so we must consider any hadith saying about election to be Fake!)
October 28, 2010 8:01 AM
Zabarah said...
Brother Ali,
I have not used Bias information I got from other sects to refute your ideals. it is just wrong and unscholarly! You say that zaidies are more than one sect? is that from a zaidy source?
you give me names of people who were companions of Imam Zaid and fought with him. but if you knew anything about zaidiah you would understand that zaidies follow ahlulbayt. they follow Imams of ahlulbayt so for Jarud or anyother companion to lead a sect is odd and contrary to our beliefs.
All of these companions are not Imams, are not mujtahids, and are not marjaaas!
we follow ahlul bayt we follow Imam zaid, we follow alnafs alzakyah we follow alnafs alradia, we follow alfakhee, and many more. We follow ahlulbayt.
if you read arabic there is a very nice study on the truth about these lies. You can check it out in this link
http://www.al-majalis.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12658&sid=438c595e613bf88863502abd2a23dc61
Brother I have no time for me keep going in a circle in this matter.
All your evidence is weak. and you have given no proof that allah has scripturally given the appointment of your Imams. please understand that I cant keep arguing what might be. for myself I prefer to deal with what is. what is in the Quran. what is in the hadith that is valid without doubt.
Thank you brother for your time and may allah enlighten us all with the truth. Amen.
October 28, 2010 8:47 PM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
You claimed:
Here the prophet says that Imam Zaid has choosen the right path and this path lead to Jannah.
Then he continues that Imam Zaid and his COMPANIONS. Who has COMPANIONS? An Imam has companions a prophet has companions. Companions follow on the foot steps of their Imam and leader. in this case Imam Zaid. and what Imam Zaid and those who follow him will go to jannah stepping on the necks of the people.'''
Actually,a Imam has ''Followers''(mamouneen),and even a normal person has companions.Even Jannah(paradise) and Jahannam(hell) have companions(as7ab Al-Jannah/As7ab An-nar)Companions just means anyone who you are accompianed by!Even Yusuf had Companions of the Prison,they were not his Followwers were they?
The Fact is You are giving Bias Interpretation ,to fit the Beleifs of your own Math-hab!!
if i were to bring this hadith to a Non-Muslim,or even a non-zaydi would they derive imamate from this?
This is based on Conjecture
And allah Says:بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
وَمَا لَهُم بِهِ مِنْ عِلْمٍ إِن يَتَّبِعُونَ إِلَّا الظَّنَّ وَإِنَّ الظَّنَّ لَا يُغْنِي مِنَ الْحَقِّ شَيْئًا (53:28)
(Interpretation of the Verse)
53:28 (Y. Ali) But they have no knowledge therein. They follow nothing but Conjecture; and Conjecture avails nothing against Truth.
YOU SAID:
Everybody at the time of imam zaid know of his knowledge and his uniqueness at the time. they even called him friend of the Quran.
''Imam Albagir and Imam Jafer Alsadeg Also Attest to that and tell people to follow him.
Everyone knows Imam Zaid Called for his Imam. He was Imam of knowledge and Jehad.
''
Brother,Whle Zayd Ibn Ali was a Freind of the Qu'ran,Imam Jafar al-Sadiq was the Qu'ran!
The Fact is Zaydis have no Proof for the Imamate of their Imams even from their own Hadiths!if the Messenger of allah(SWS)Willed to mention it,he would of mentioend it!
Secondly i mentioned the appointment of al-Baqir from the Da'a'im al-Islam,But the Blog Automaticly Removed my Comment!
You Said:
''
Allah make us from the companions of Imam Zaid. Amen.
''
Ameeeeeeeeeeeeen
October 29, 2010 6:49 AM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
Secondly,if you are here to convince me of Zayd's Imamate,that is a Waiste of time on your Part,if you are hear to share each others views like i am,then we can continue!
secondly,i said that the imams were mentioned to Ali,but we have been tested by allah to follow the imams wich were appointed by teh previous,and the fact is all such knowledge was given to Ali,that does not mean we have it.
you then ask me to bring attributtes of a imam from the qu'ran,then i did:Nass,Ismah and Ilm!
no election or choice of men''and you will never find a change in the Sunnah of allah''
its quite simple!
now i am hear to compare zaydi beleifs with Isma'ili beelifs,and not to putr forward a refutation of each others sects.
you yurself started of the post stating clearly you want to refute our sect.now that has failed you,and you call it ''going in circles'',what si your intention?Dialogue or gathwering a convert?
to be honest i read all the Zaydi books on this website,and found their answers to 12ers Simpleton.i mean sometimes you see something and thnk:How did you come up with that?
now akhi,i am hungry for knowledge,plz answer my questions especially regarding The 3 Shahadas and why you took it out :)
October 29, 2010 6:56 AM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
Also,As Brother Devin pointed out the Zaydis have abandoned many of the Practices of Ahl Ul-Bayt(a.s),for Example 3 Shahada's
unfortenatly my computer cannot produce the arabic letetrs right now so i will reference you to my own Video:
True Adhan-Ali is The Trustee of allah علياً ولي الل http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZAhxhaPOcg
it was abu Bakr and Umar that took this shahda out of the Testimony in Prayer ,ansd even the sunni Muhadiths like Ibn hajar Al-Athqalani Admit to this!
and it surprises me how you took ut the Matam For the Master of Martyrs (a.s)aswell
(what goes on with those 12ers in iraq and iran is recently started by Muhammad Baqir Majlisi and has no basis in the sunnahy of Ahl Ul-Bayt(a.s)(i.e hitting yourselves with swords and dressing up as karbala martyrs)
but beating of the chest and Riwayaat is based on Sunnah of Ahl ul-Bayt(a.s),Uwais Al-Qarni had broken all his Teeth because at the battle f Uhud the Messenger of allah-Upon him Be Peace-had had his two Front teeth Broken by the meccan!
uwais Al-Qarni(R.A)Said to Umar :i was in Yemen ,and i had heard the prophet ahd his teeth broken,and you were with the prophet and you did not even shed tear!
on Hearing the News of the Action of Uwais Al-Qarni(R.A)the prophet said of him:''Surely Uwais is our Beloved Freind''
secondly look in Du'a Thanamayn al-Quraish and you see Ali curses Abu bakr and Umar(upon them be Curses of allah and the angels)and he calls them the ''thanamayn Al-Quraish''í.e. the 2 idols of quraish
http://www.duas.org/alaviya/dua-120.htm ''Saname Quraish''
but is it True you consider their rule Legitimate?
did not the lady of the Worlds send her Condemnation upon these Tawaghit?
and he attacked the Daughter of the Prophet ,and killed her son Muhsin.
Soem of the References to this Report Are :
Tareekh Abul Fida Volume 1 page 156 Dhikr bayya Abu Bakr History of al-Tabari, Volume 9 page 187al-Istiab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr Volume 1 page 246 Dhikr Abdullah in Abi QuhafaSharh ibn al Hadeed Volume 1 page 157Al Mihal wa al Nihal Volume 1 page 77, Dhikr NizameeyaMuruj adh-Dhahab by Abd al-Hasan Ali ibn al-Husayn al Masudi Volume 3 page 198Izalat ul Khifa by Muhaddith Shah Waliyullah Dehlavi Volume 2 page 226
(All the narrators are authentic as they are the narrators of Sahih Bukhari & Sahih Muslim. Muhammad bin Bashir: Imam Al-Dhahabi said: ‘Thabt’ (Al-Kaashif, v2 p159), Imam Ibn Hajar Asqalani said: ‘Thiqa’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v2 p58). Ubaidllah bin Umar: Al-Dhahabi said: ‘Thabt’ (Al-Kaashif, v1 p685), Ibn Hajar Asqalani said: ‘Thiqa Thabt’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v1 p637). Zaid bin Aslam: Al-Dhahabi said: ‘Hujja’ (Siar alam alnubala, v5 p316), Imam Ibn Hajar Asqalani said: ‘Thiqa’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v1 p326). Aslam al-Qurashi (the slave of Umar): Al-Dhahabi said: 'Faqih, Imam' (Siar alam alnubala, v4 p98), Ibn Hajar Asqalani said: ‘Thiqa’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v1 p88). )
(NOTE :to ProAhlulbayt1,there is no mention of any sayf Al-Tamimi!)
if you dont know the positon of this Book,it is earlier then bukhari,and dates from 1st Century After Hijra.
http://www.livingislam.org/n/ias_e.html
October 29, 2010 8:05 AM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
aswell as Musnaf of Imam Ibn Abi Shebah, Volume 7 page 432 Tradition 37045
Narrated Muhammad bin Bashir from Ubaidllah bin Umar from Zaid bin Aslam that his father Aslam said: ‘When the homage (baya) went to Abu Bakr after the Messenger of Allah, Ali and Zubair were entering into the house of Fatima to consult her and revise their issue, so when Umar came to know about that, he went to Fatima and said : ‘Oh daughter of Messenger of Allah, no one is dearest to us more than your father and no one dearest to us after your father than you, I swear by Allah, if these people gathered in your house then nothing will prevent me from giving order to burn the house and those who are inside.’
So when Umar left, they (Ali and Zubair) came , so she (Fatima) said to them: ‘Do you know that Umar came here and swear by Allah to burn the house if you gather here, I swear by God that he (Umar) will execute his oath, so please leave wisely and take a decision and don't gather here again.’ So they left her and didn't gather there till they give baya to Abu Bakr.”
October 29, 2010 8:07 AM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
Secondly,There is a Well-known hadith where Ali ibn Husayn Said About Salman:
وَاللٌّهِ لَوْ عَلِمَ أَبُو ذَرّ مَا فِي قَلْبِ سَلْمَان لَقَتَلَهُ.
“I swear by Allāh, if Abū Dharr knew what was in the heart of Salmān, he would have killed him.”
(Bihar Al-Anwar v. 22, pg. 343)
Muhammad Ibn Ali Narrates:دَخَلَ أَبُو ذَرٍّ عَلَى سَلْمَانَ وَهُوَ يَطْبَخُ قِدْراً لَهُ، فَبَيْنَا هُمَا يَتَحَادَثَانِ إِذَا انْكَبَّتِ الْقِدْرُ عَلَى وَجْهِهَا عَلَى الأَرْضِ، فَلَمْ يَسْقُطْ مِنْ مَرَقِهَا وَلاَ مِنْ وَدَكِهَا شَيْءٌ، فَعَجِبَ مِنْ ذٌلِكَ أَبُو ذَرٍّ عَجَباً شَدِيداً، وَأَخَذَ سَلْمَانُ الْقِدْرَ فَوَضَعَهَا عَلَى حَالِهَا الأَوَّلِ عَلَى النَّارِ ثَانِيَةً، وَأَقْبَلاَ يَتَحَدَّثَانِ فَبَيْنَمَا هُمَا يَتَحَدَّثَانِ إِذَا انْكَبَّتِ الْقِدْرُ عَلَى وَجْهِهَا فَلَمْ يَسْقُطْ مِنْهَا شَيْءٌ مِنْ مَرَقِهَا وَلاَ مِنْ وَدَكِهَا، قَالَ فَخَرَجَ أَبُو ذَرٍّ وَهُوَ مَذْعُورٌ مِنْ عِنْدِ سَلْمَانَ، فَبَيْنَمَا هُوَ مُتَفَكِّرٌ إِذْ لَقِيَ أَمِيرَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ (ع) عَلَى الْبَابِ، فَلَمَّا أَنْ بَصُرَ بهِ أَمِيرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ (ع) قَالَ لَهُ: يَا بَا ذَرٍّ! مَا الَّذِي أَخْرَجَكَ وَمَا الَّذِي ذَعَرَكَ؟ فَقَالَ لَهُ أَبُو ذَرٍّ: يَا أَمِيرَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ! رَأَيْتُ سَلْمَانَ صَنَعَ كَذَا وَكَذَا، فَعَجِبْتُ مِنْ ذٌلِكَ. فَقَالَ أَمِيرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ(ع): يَا أبَا ذَرٍّ! إِنَّ سَلْمَانَ لَوْ حَدَّثَكَ بِمَا يَعْلَمُ لَقُلْتَ رَحِمَ اللَّهُ قَاتِلَ سَلْمَانَ!
Abū Dharr once came to Salmān while he was cooking in a cooking pot; while they were conversing with each other, the cooking pot overturned and fell down on the ground, but not a drop of its curry or cooking fat fell down; Abū Dharr was highly amazed at seeing this; Salmān picked up the cooking pot and placed it on the fire the second time, and they began conversing once again; while they were talking to each other, the pot overturned again, and nothing of the curry or cooking fat spilled, Abu Dharr then left Salmān in the state of great astonishment , and while he was deep in thought, he suddenly met Amīr al-Mu’minīn (as) at the door. When the Imām (as) saw Abū Dharr’s state of amazement, he said to him: O Abā Dharr, what made you leave the presence of Salmān? And what made you frightened? Abū Dharr said to the Imām (as): O Amīr al-Mu’minīn, I saw Salmān doing such and such a thing, and I was amazed by that. Thereupon Amīr al-Mu’minīn (as) said to him: O Abā Dharr, If Salmān were to tell you what he knows, you would have said: May Allāh have mercy on the killer of Salmān.”
(Bahj al-Sabāghah Fī Sharhi Nahj al-Balāghah, v. 3, pg. 402)
and We All know what Muhamamd ibn Ali(a.s)Said of Him:لا تَقُولُوا سَلْمَانَ الْفَارِسِيَّ، وَلَكِنْ قُولُوا سَلْمَانَ الْمُحَمَّدِيَّ. ذَاكَ رَجُلٌ مِنَّا أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ.
“Do not say Salmān al-Farsī, but say Salmān al-Muhammadī, for he is a man from us, the Ahlu’l Bayt (as).”
(Bihār al-Anwār, v. 22, pg. 349)
this was because Salman(a.s)Knew what was the real nature of Ali ibn Abi Talib,that even if Abui dharr knew,he would kill him!
October 29, 2010 8:09 AM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
Also akhi,didnt Prove that your imams were not Ahl Ul-Bayt but Sadaat?and that the Ahl Ul-Bayt are Purified in all times since the words Allah uses are:
' إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ لِيُذْهِبَ عَنْكُمُ الرِّجْسَ أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ وَيُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِيرا ''
notice the Continouis verbs ''وَيُطَهِّرَكُمْ ''and '' يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ''i..e Yutahiakum and Innama YuridAllah are continouis opposed to Qad Rad Allah and Qad Tathirakum!
meaning:if a person is truly from this Ahl ul-byt they wil be always totally purified!
secondly i can show this verse:
اأَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا إِذَا نُودِي لِلصَّلاَةِ مِنْ يَوْمِ الْجُمُعَةِ فَاسْعَوْا إِلَى ذِكْرِ اللَّهِ وَذَرُوا الْبَيْعَ ذَلِكُمْ خَيْر ٌ لَكُمْ إِنْ كُنتُمْ تَعْلَمُونَ
i.e. it tells the believers to come To Jumu'ah ,however i can claim that it refers t the beleivers at the time of the Revelation and nt All times,therefore we as muslims,today are not Obliged to perform Friday prayers!
notice:اأَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا''
meaning allah is calling out to those who believe at that specific point,but we will not claim these verses only refer to the belevers of this time will we?
the fact is that you borrowed this from sunni islam ,just like the majority of your doctrines.
and i dont speak arabic well-enough to engage in debates,i can read articles,and understand them somewhat,i can also understand the quran,but my arabic is very Primary :)
but insha'Allah when i get older i will engage in dialogue with my Zaydi brethren .
looking forward to your answers.
and thank you for your time
-ali
October 29, 2010 8:12 AM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
also Brother,i am not Trying to ''refute''your doctrines.i am trying to gain viewpoint on how zaydis claim their relgion is The right path of islam,as you know there will be 73 sects,and i am searching wich one is right.
i am defending my doctrines,of course,just as you defend yours.but we should not act like their is enmity between us.The Composing odf Differences within Religion is a major sin,and one Waliyallah said that to unite the muslims is better then 1000 Prayers.
but we should also not Neglect Scholarly research provided it is ina respectable manner!
we are truth seekers,and keeping this in mind we should always be open to dialogue!
also ,you sais you could bring up stuff in our hsityr,lets discuss .
i am open to discussing this and ending all lies agianst our Imams(a.s)
The Fatimids never harmed anybody with out a just Cause.many things were fabricated about them,just as they fabricated many things About Ameer al-Mumineen(a.s).
the Mamluk dysnasty had a Writer known as al-maqrizi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Maqrizi
he came hundreds of eyars after the fatimids
and he was Anti-Fatimid,the Abbassids also had manyn propoganda against the ftimids.
the main propoganda is Al-Hakim Bi AmrAllah(الحاكم بأمر الله)(alayhi al-salam)and his ''alleged insanity''
Al-Hakim did order the jews to wear certain things,because they were corrupting the Economy,and after a Few years the economy went up again,and people could eat
he uplifted the Restrictions on Ahl Ul-Kitab
the Destruction of The holy church of the Sepulchre was because it was being used as a Spy Basin.
the Prophet also Destroyed one Masjid known as
''Masjid Al-Diraar''Because the Hypocrites were using it as a base to attack islam!
also he did not force Women to Wear Hijab,and this angered alot of people.
so they said he was an insane and that he commited incest with his daughter!
Secondly,the other argument is their Alleged involvement with the Crusaders.
however Imam Al-Amir Bi Ahkam Allah(الآمر بأحكام الله)(a.s)did not order to meet the crusaders,it was al-Afdhal( لأفضل ) a sunni,and he thought they were Byzantines,as the Fatimids and Byzantines had a Alliance against the Abbassids.
they found this out and Changed their stance ,the Crusaders attacked jerusalem in a Surprise battle of Asqalan and even al-afdhal (remember a Sunni!)who was a wenemy of the Imams((a.s)had tried to stop them.
Al-Afdhal was nicknamed Jalal al-Islam ("glory of Islam") and Nasir al-Din ("Helper of religion") by sunnis and Ibn al-Qalansi a sunni historian praised him.and he was Resented by the Isma'ili Imams of Both Nizari and Tayyibi.
in Fact after imam mustansir's Death Al-Afdal had taken power and the imams were almost held hostage!
unfortenalty since Salahedin burned the Fatimid library we have little infrmation n ther history
we do have the ''fatimid chronicles''at al-azhar
Shiachat /forum/index.php?/...fatimid-chronicles/ -
wich show many false things in oru hstory.and show the truth about many falsifications of sunni Scholars!
Secondly you should see this :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0jtodEcQXc
''Fatimids Glory of Arab Shi'a.mp4 ''and most people agree with us.
so in short even if you searched the pages of history for 1 billion years you would not find a single sin commited by our imams ,unless it was fabricated and can be easily refuted.
October 29, 2010 10:33 AM
Ali said...
also our imams Al-Hakim,al-Musta'ali,and al-Amir Were Martyrs!
allah has Said in his Qu'ran :
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
يُرِيدُونَ أَن يُطْفِؤُواْ نُورَ اللّهِ بِأَفْوَاهِهِمْ وَيَأْبَى اللّهُ إِلاَّ أَن يُتِمَّ نُورَهُ وَلَوْ كَرِهَ الْكَافِرُونَ
9:32 (Picktall) Fain would they put out the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah disdaineth (aught) save that He shall perfect His light, however much the disbelievers are averse
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
يُرِيدُونَ لِيُطْفِؤُوا نُورَ اللَّهِ بِأَفْوَاهِهِمْ وَاللَّهُ مُتِمُّ نُورِهِ وَلَوْ كَرِهَ الْكَافِرُونَ
61:8 (Picktall) Fain would they put out the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah will perfect His light however much the disbelievers are averse. -
October 29, 2010 10:34 AM
Ali said...
i can also show you the Ahl ul-Bayt considered themselves free from all sins by a speech given by Imam Hassan(a.s):
أنا من أهل البيت الذين أذهب الله عنهم الرجس وطهرهم تطهيرا
I am from that Ahl al-Bayt from whom Allah KEPT away ALL blemishes and PURIFIED absolutely.
and the words of al-hasan;
يا أهل العراق اتقوا الله فينا ، فإنا
أمراؤكم وضيفانكم ، ونحن أهل البيت الذي قال الله عزّ وجل : ﴿ إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ اللهُ لِيُذْهِبَ عَنْكُمُ الرِّجْسَ أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ وَيُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِيراً ﴾
O people of Iraq! Fear Allah with regards to us, for we (Ahl al-Bayt) are your (divinely appointed) rulers. We are the “Ahl al-Bayt”, about whom Allah the Majestic and Glorious, said << Allah only wishes to keep away from you all blemishes (al-rijz), O Ahl al-Bayt, and to purify you absolutely.
(Majma’ al-Zawaid, vol. 9, p. 172 )
October 29, 2010 2:19 PM
brother Ali,
my Refutation to all your statements will come inshallah.
but just a question for now. who is you infallable imam today?
we are always glad to see people with varying opinions to evaluate our own.
if you are arabic speaker then show your evidence with the zaidies scholars in www.almajalis.org. like the 12rs have.
October 24, 2010 9:32 AM
zabarah said...
sorry i just saw your messages and and i cant write the replies right now. give me a day or so. I am glad to discuss such issues, ismailies in yemen dont even say they are ismili even when asked.
October 24, 2010 10:30 AM
Zabarah said...
Salam,i am a Isma'ili ,We dont Number the imams At all!
this is Common Beleif!
[Sorry about this. It is wrong to take info from other sects.]
These Are our Awsiya:
Adam:Set
nuh-Sem
Ibrahim-Isma'il
Musa -Harun
Isa-simun As-Safa(Isa is Dead in Isma'ili Beleif) [so do we. Most zaidies believe he is dead]
Muhammad-Ali
these Are our imams(a.s):
Hasan
husayn
ali ibn husayn
Muhamamd ibn ali
Jafar Bin muhammad
(after him Came the Period of Satr or Secret Mission) [Why? What is different that the mission became secret??]
Isma'il ibn Jafar
Musa Al-Kazim(Not a Real imam(Mustaqqar imam) but a Mustawda imam to Protect The Identity of muhammmad Ibn Isma'il)
Muhamamad ibn Isma'il
Abdullah ibn Muhammad Al-Mastoor
Ahmed Ibn Abdullah al-Mastoor
Husayn Ibn al-Ahmad al-Mastoor
al-Mahdi Billah
al-Qa'im billah
al-Mansoor billah
Al-Mu'iz Li dinallah(under his rule Egypt and Syria is conquered)
Al-Aziz Billah
Abu ‘Ali Mansur Tāriqu l-Ḥākim(under his Reign southern France,Southern Italy,Allepo is conquered)
Imam Zahir(under his Reign Masjid al-Aqsa is built)
Imam mustansir billah
Imam musta'ali Billah
Imam al-amir bi Ahkam Allah
Imam Tayyib ibn amir(Went into Hiding)
abnd After him the list of Imams Continues and as Imam Tayyib Ibn Tayyib
The Awaited One is Qa'im al-Qiyamah.
Who Is your Imam now?
and Unlike Twelvers We Beleive the Imams Die.
and the Da'i of Najran is the Head of the Ummah.
[Who is your Imam. The Dai is not Imam is he? who appointed him?]
Regarding the Isma'ili Imamah it is a Neccassery Perequisite for a Masoom and Chosen with Nass.
[Where is your Current Imam and if you are following an Imam now. Are you saying that he is masom completely from any error! Where is this proof why doesn’t he show himself to prove his words and actions are completely error free .
There is only proof that ismah is only for five the prophet Fatimah, Ali, Hassan, and Hussain. The people of the cloak.
“ انما يريد الله ان يذهب عنكم الرجس اهل البيت ويطهركم تطهيرا”
Even then the Isma is not from everything but only from the kabaer and the proof is Imam Ali Duaa
((اللهم اغفرلي ما أنت أعلم به مني، فإن عدت فعد لي بالمغفرة. اللهم اغفر لي ما وأيت من نفسي، ولم تجد له وفاء عندي. اللهم اغفر لي ما تقربت به إليك بلساني، ثم خالفه قلبي. اللهم اغفر لي رمزات الألحاظ، وسقطات الألفاظ ، وشهوات الجنان، وهفوات اللسان))
This proves Imam ali does not have Isma from the small things. If he did, then tell me why he is asking forgiveness from these small things
It is Not a Thing of shura or the choice of Men.
The Prophet mohamad and the Quran have not named Imams by name. They only stated that they are from ahlul bayt . like the hadith of safinat alnajah, the hadith of alnjuum, and ayat altataheer, and ayah almawadah. These are proof of the Place of ahllul bayt. The ayah of the the three levels of ahlul bayt shows how the bad of ahlul bay are thaleem, the gassed of ahlulbayt are the ones who are pious and learned and the third are the sabugun lilkharat who call the people to the sake of allah and fight the oppressors( these are the Imams)
((ثُمَّ أَوْرَثْنَا الْكِتَابَ الَّذِينَ اصْطَفَيْنَا مِنْ عِبَادِنَا فَمِنْهُمْ ظَالِمٌ لِنَفْسِهِ وَمِنْهُمْ مُقْتَصِدٌ وَمِنْهُمْ سَابِقٌ بِالْخَيْرَاتِ بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ ذَلِكَ هُوَ الْفَضْلُ الْكَبِيرُ))
]
No Prophet of allah has Chosen their Wasi in This Manner. [Yes Imam Ali, Hassan, and hussain were named by allah
and did not state anythng more than stating after them are the children of their loans]
but the Bani Israa'il did Follow al-Samiri Based on shura .
The Wasi or Natiq is Brought with Every Rasool (Messenger) of allah in 7 Stages. [ And how is a wasi brought in 7 stages?? Imam Ali is 1/7th of an Imam? Where is your proof?]
there Were 7 Prophets and Seven WAsi's. [There were lots, the Quran is full of prophets]
the number 7 is Very Important in Our Theology.
October 24, 2010 10:58 PM
Zabarah said...
The Job of the Prophet is to Give the Zahiri PArt of din Adam al-Awaal(the Religion of Adam and the angels Before the Fall)and The Islamic Shari'ah.
[The prophet gave us all of the deen Allahs deen as the quran and the prophet said today I have completed your religion for you and completed my blessing on you and accept islam as a religion for you. To say that the prophet gave us half a religion is odd to say
اليوم أكملت لكم دينكم وأتممت عليكم نعمتي ورضيت لكم الاسلام دين
]
the job of the Natiq is to give the Taw'il of The din Adam al-Awaal
and the islamic shari'ah. [Imam ali was taught by the prophet since he was young that is why he has this knowledge. There is no supernatural with Imam ali. And so happened to their sons and so on. Here is the proof that Imam ali learned from the prophet and did not do anything more or different than what the prophet taught him
“ما دخل رأسي نوم ولا عهد إلى رسول الله حتى علمت من رسول الله ما نزله به جبريل من حلال أو حرام أو سنة أو أمر أو نهي فيما نزل فيه ، وفيمن نزل “
]
the Isma'ili Imamah is something wich is the Wajhatallah(The direction Of allah)and the NoorAllah(the Light of allah)The Mystical wisdom and Ismah (Infallibilty )is Present within the imam. [Is he Here? does he command you what is haram and what is halal?]
Walayah Are among the Seven Pillars of Faith and Walayah is Love for the Prophet the Wasi the imam and the Da'i . [as with all sects. whatever that naming be]
externally the Imam is a pure personality and internally a light. [I am assuming metaphors? And who is your Imam now?]
Externally, the Qur'an is the holy Book and internally (in the Imam) it is a light. [I am assuming metaphors?]
This shows that externally Ali and the Qur'ân are separate from each other, but internally they are not only together, they are one light.
Ali and the Imams After him Are therefore Called al-quran al-Natiq(The Speaking quran)
While ali Amir ul-Mumineen Described the book of allah as the quran Al-Samit(silent quran)
[Yes Imam ali is the Quran NAtiq that’s because he has it memorized and knows the tafseer that the prophet has taught him.
They both share the truth. But the question is: who at this age has learned the quran and its tafseer well to lead humanity to safety?]
October 24, 2010 11:15 PM
Zabarah said...
THE QURAN:
Amir al-Mu'minin, Ali ibn Abi Talib (SA) says:
"The Qur'an is a light whose lamp cannot be extinguished, an ocean whose depth cannot be fathomed, a path which never leads astray, a criterion whose validity is irrefutable, a cure that banishes the fear of illness, a spring of knowledge and also its ocean, the trivet of Islam and its foundation, quenches the thirst of the scholar, a clear path of the virtuous." [Yes we know how important the Quran is. Therefore we choose who we follow based on the quran I will comment further in the end of this post]
and Imam ahmed al-Mastoor(A.S)Says in Ikhwan al-Safa : Just as the human form is the last phase of the development of living being, so the Arabic language is the perfection of all languages and its script the perfection of calligraphy."
so what The quran is the Imam Is.
You can never assume anyone will follow a person now if 1) the person is not mentioned directly in the quran 2) the person is not mentioned in the hadith that is 100% valid 3) they did not call to them self and taught people and showed how pious and noble that person is and show that they are a person that is aligned with the quran.
The proof that we should follow ahlul bayt is there 100%. Then the Quran speaks about which of ahlulbayt to follow. No names but traits!
لا يستوي القاعدون مِن المؤمنين غير أولي الضرر"
"والمجاهدون في سبيل الله بأموالهم وأنفسهم
"فضل الله المجهدين بأموالهم وأنفسهم على القاعدين درجة وكلا وعد الله الحسنى وفضل الله المجاهدين على "القاعدين أجراً عظيماً
" أم حسبتم أن تدخلوا الجنة ولما يعلم الله الذين جهدوا منكم ويعلم الصابرين"
" إن الله اشترى من المؤمنين أنفسهم وأموالهم بأن لهم الجنة يقتلون في سبيل الله فيقتلون ويقتلون وعداً عليه حقاً في التوراة والإنجيل والقرءان ومن أوفى بعهده من الله "
Allah has preferred the Mujahdeen with their money and themselves more than the ones who are sitting. And this ayah to prove that there is no tugyah and no reason for you to be quiet and let evildoers stay evil and also call people to turn to the truth!
" ألا تقاتلون قوما نكثوا أيمانهم وهموا بإخراج الرسول وهم بدءوكم أول مرة أتخشونهم فالله أحق أن تخشوه إن كنتم مؤمنين قتلوهم يعذبهم الله بأيديكم ويخزهم وينصركم عليهم ويشف صدور قوم مؤمنين "
“ومن أحسن قولا ممن دعا إلى الله، وعمل صالحاً وقال إنني من المسلمين”
“ادع إلى سبيل ربك بالحكمة والموعظة الحسنة وجادلهم بالتي هي أحسن إن ربك هو أعلم بمن ضلّ عن سبيله وهو أعلم بالمهتدين”
Sorry I didn’t translate I didn’t have lots of time. and sorry for the messy hand writing. you have many posts so I will go through them as I have time]
October 24, 2010 11:16 PM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
Brother Zabarah,
Zaydis do allow Taqiyah:
Interpretation: it is permissible to eat Haram food or Consume Sarabah(Wine) Under the state of Taqiyyah
:جواز التقية في حكم الاَطعمة والاَشربة المحرمة
Zaydi Reference: Bahr al Zakhaar Vol.6, P.100, by Imam of Zaydis Ahmed ibn Yahya ibn al Murtada
No Woman May Attain Punishment When Commiting fornication Under Taqiyah
وأما لو استكرهت المرأة على الزنا ، فلا حدّ عليها ، قولاً واحداً
Zaydi Reference: Bahr al Zakhaar Vol.6, P.100, by Imam of Zaydis Ahmed ibn Yahya ibn al Murtada
Taking the Maal of another Person is Permissable Under Taqiyah:وأطلق الاِمام الزيدي أحمد بن يحيى بن المرتضى القول باباحة مال الغير بشرط الضمان في حال التقية
Zaydi Reference: Bahr al Zakhaar Vol.6, P.100, by Imam of Zaydis Ahmed ibn Yahya ibn al Murtada
However,zaydism today has Nothing to do with Zayd(R.A)or Ahl Ul-Bayt,and is basically sunnism wth some Shi'a Attributtes.
and the quran allows Taqiyah:
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
لاَ يَتَّخِذِ الْمُؤْمِنُونَ الْكَافِرِينَ أَوْلِيَاءَ مِنْ دُونِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَمَنْ يَفْعَلْ ذَلِكَ فَلَيْسَ مِنَ اللَّهِ فِي شَيْء ٍ إِلاَّ أَنْ تَتَّقُوا مِنْهُمْ تُقَاة ً وَيُحَذِّرُكُمُ اللَّهُ نَفْسَه ُُ وَإِلَى اللَّهِ الْمَصِير
Let not the believers take the disbelievers as Auliyā (supporters, helpers, etc.) instead of the believers, and whoever does that will never be helped by Allāh in any way, except if you indeed fear a danger from them. And Allāh warns you against Himself (His Punishment), and to Allāh is the final return. (Aali Imran 3:28)بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
وَقَالَ رَجُل ٌ مُؤْمِن ٌ مِنْ آلِ فِرْعَوْنَ يَكْتُمُ إِيمَانَهُ~ُ أَتَقْتُلُونَ رَجُلاً أَنْ يَقُولَ رَبِّيَ اللَّهُ وَقَدْ جَاءَكُمْ بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ مِنْ رَبِّكُمْ وَإِنْ يَكُ كَاذِبا ً فَعَلَيْهِ كَذِبُه ُُ وَإِنْ يَكُ صَادِقا ً يُصِبْكُمْ بَعْضُ الَّذِي يَعِدُكُمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ لاَ يَهْدِي مَنْ هُوَ مُسْرِف ٌ كَذَّاب And a believing man of Fir'aun's (Pharaoh) family, who hid his faith said: "Would you kill a man because he says: My Lord is Allāh, and he has come to you with clear signs (proofs) from your Lord? And if he is a liar, upon him will be (the sin of) his lie; but if he is telling the truth, then some of that (calamity) wherewith he threatens you will befall on you." Verily, Allāh guides not one who is a Musrif (a polytheist, or a murderer who shed blood without a right, or those who commit great sins, oppressor, transgressor), a liar! (Ghafir 40:28)بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
وَكَذَلِكَ بَعَثْنَاهُمْ لِيَتَسَاءَلُوا بَيْنَهُمْ قَالَ قَائِل ٌ مِنْهُمْ كَمْ لَبِثْتُمْ قَالُوا لَبِثْنَا يَوْماً أَوْ بَعْضَ يَوْم ٍ قَالُوا رَبُّكُمْ أَعْلَمُ بِمَا لَبِثْتُمْ فَابْعَثُوا أَحَدَكُمْ بِوَرِقِكُمْ هَذِهِ~ِ إِلَى الْمَدِينَةِ فَلْيَنظُرْ أَيُّهَا أَزْكَى طَعَاما ً فَلْيَأْتِكُمْ بِرِزْق ٍ مِنْهُ وَلْيَتَلَطَّفْ وَلاَ يُشْعِرَنَّ بِكُمْ أَحَدا
Likewise, We awakened them (from their long deep sleep) that they might question one another. A speaker from among them said: "How long have you stayed (here)?" They said: "We have stayed (perhaps) a day or part of a day." They said: "Your Lord (Alone) knows best how long you have stayed (here). So send one of you with this silver coin of yours to the town, and let him find out which is the good lawful food, and bring some of that to you. And let him be careful and let no man know of you. (Al-Kahf 18:19)
October 25, 2010 6:53 AM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
Secondly,When Ammar ibn Yassir was Confronted by the Opressive rulers of the Quraish,he PErformed Taqiyah,he did not fight jihad ,he performed Taqiyah.the same for the man and Fir'awn.
the Verseabout;'''
Allah has preferred the Mujahdeen with their money and themselves more than the ones who are sitting.''is True,Jihad is a Pilalr of islam,Taqiyah isnt.However Imam Hassan(a.s)is Still higher then Imam Husayn(a.s),even though the Later did Jihad.the proof of this is in the Last speech of Ali(a.s),and The verse nowhere says taqiyah is not permitted against a Fascist dictator,if it says that plz show the wording to me.we agree ther mujahid is ''Prefered'' over the non-mujahid.and you will find most of our Imams were hardcore Mujahids.
and thesunis agree with this point.
التقية جائزة لصون النفس ، وهل هي جائزة لصون المال يحتمل أن يحكم فيها بالجواز
Taqiyyah is permissible for self protection, but is it permissible for the protection of wealth? It probably is permissible. Tafseer Kabeer, Volume 4 page 170 by Fakhrudeen Razi
After recording the statement of Hasan Basri, Fakhruddin al-Razi records:
عن الحسن : أنه قال التقية جائزة للمؤمنين إلى يوم القيامة ، وهذا القول أولى ، لأن دفع الضرر عن النفس واجب بقدر الإمكان .
“Taqiyyah is permissible until the day of Qayamah and this statement is better because it is Wajib to protect our life from any harm”
Tafseer Kabeer, Volume 4 page 170 Hasan al-Basri 's Status within sunni circles is Well-known to any sunni.
al-Nasa'ih al-Kaafiyah page 109, Sunni scholar Muhammad bin Aqeel Shaafi writes:
I say our scholars (Scholars of Ahle Sunnah) agree on the fact that when needed, telling a lie is allowed, and this is Taqiyyah. But if we name this Taqiyyah, a lot of the scholars raise an objection, since the Shi'a use this term. So the difference between Shi'a and Sunni is only a word difference.
Ibn Hayan Andalusi in his famed commentary(i.e Tafsir) of Holy Quran records:
وقال أصحاب أبي حنيفة التقية رخصة من الله تعالى
The companions of Abu Hanifa said: ‘Taqiyyah has been made lawful by Allah Almighty’
Al-Bahr al-Muheet, Volume 2 page 443 Abu hanifa,his status is Well-known among sunni circles
Salafi/Wahabi kingIbn Qayim al-Jawziyah also stated:
إذا خافوا من شرهم فأباح لهم التقية
“If they fear oppression, it is permissible for them to practice Taqiyyah”
Badae al-Fawaed, Volume 3 page 575 Ibn al-Qayim's status is Well-Known among Salafis and he is a Ultimate authority for them.
what about the Opinion of Hassan bin Hassan bin Imam Hassan bin Ali bin Abi Talib(a.s)
حدثنا وكيع عن فضيل بن مرزوق عن الحسن بن الحسن قال إنما التقية رخصة
Wakee narrated from Fudail bin Marzouq from al-Hassan bin al-Hassan who said: ‘Taqyia is lawful’
Wakee bin al-Jarah: Ibn Hajar said: ‘Thiqah’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v2 p283). Fudail bin Marzouq: Ibn Hajar said: ‘Seduq’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v2 p15).
unni Shaykh Ishaq bin Ibrahim al-Shashi Usul Al-Shashi, Chapter "Al Adheema" page 114 (published in Delhi, 1310 H):
"It is permissible to swear at Rasulullah (s) when one is under duress and to recite the Kalima of Kufr in the fear of loosing property or of getting murdered provided that the heart is at comfort."[ this book is STILL read as a curriculum in deobandi Schools.
Abdul Kareem Shahrastani in his famous text ‘al Mihal wa al Nahal’ Volume 1 page 122, whilst setting out the views of the Khawarij, states:
والسادسة: ان التقية غير جائزة في قول ولا عمل
"The sixth characteristic of the Khawarij is that they consider the act of Taqiyyah to be unlawful either verbally or practically".
However the Ibadhi today consider Taqiyah Lawfull ,just not agianst a Opressive ruler.the zaydis borrowed many ideas from the Ibadhiya(as they ruled n yemen ,and were the majority in Hadhramaut)incluing their ''alleged Mutazilism'!
October 25, 2010 7:11 AM
Anonymous said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
cocnerning the imamate :
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
وَإِذْ ابْتَلَى إِبْرَاهِيمَ رَبُّه ُُ بِكَلِمَات ٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ قَالَ إِنِّي جَاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِمَاما ً قَالَ وَمِنْ ذُرِّيَّتِي قَالَ لاَ يَنَالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ
And (remember) when the Lord of Ibrāhim (Abraham) [i.e., Allāh] tried him with (certain) Commands, which he fulfilled. He (Allāh) said (to him), "Verily, I am going to make you a leader (Prophet) of mankind." [Ibrāhim (Abraham)] said, "And of my offspring (to make leaders)." (Allāh) said, "My Covenant (Prophethood, etc.) includes not Zālimûn (polytheists and wrong-doers)." (Al-Baqarah 2:124)
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
وَجَعَلْنَاهُمْ أَئِمَّة ً يَهْدُونَ بِأَمْرِنَا وَأَوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْهِمْ فِعْلَ الْخَيْرَاتِ وَإِقَامَ الصَّلاَةِ وَإِيتَاءَ الزَّكَاةِ وَكَانُوا لَنَا عَابِدِينَ
And We made them leaders, guiding (mankind) by Our Command, and We inspired in them the doing of good deeds, performing Salāt (Iqāmat-as-Salāt), and the giving of Zakāt and of Us (Alone) they were worshippers. (Al-Anbiya 21:73)
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
وَجَعَلْنَا مِنْهُمْ أَئِمَّة ً يَهْدُونَ بِأَمْرِنَا لَمَّا صَبَرُوا وَكَانُوا بِآيَاتِنَا يُوقِنُونَ
And We made from among them (Children of Israel), leaders, giving guidance under Our Command, when they were patient and used to believe with certainty in Our Ayāt (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.). (As-Sajdah 32:24)
and all Verses regarding the imamate Mention Allah making them Imams and no Election or ''Earning imamate''
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
لاَ يَمَسُّهُ~ُ إِلاَّ الْمُطَهَّرُونَ
Which none can touch but the purified . (Al-Waqi'ah 56:79)
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
هُوَ الَّذِي أَنْزَلَ عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ مِنْهُ آيَات ٌ مُحْكَمَاتٌ هُنَّ أُمُّ الْكِتَابِ وَأُخَرُ مُتَشَابِهَات ٌ فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ فِي قُلُوبِهِمْ زَيْغ ٌ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ مَا تَشَابَه ََ مِنْهُ ابْتِغَاءَ الْفِتْنَةِ وَابْتِغَاءَ تَأْوِيلِه ِِ وَمَا يَعْلَمُ تَأْوِيلَهُ~ُ إِلاَّ اللَّهُ وَالرَّاسِخُونَ فِي الْعِلْمِ يَقُولُونَ آمَنَّا بِه ِِ كُلّ ٌ مِنْ عِنْدِ رَبِّنَا وَمَا يَذَّكَّرُ إِلاَّ أُوْلُوا الأَلْبَاب
He is the One Who has revealed to you the Book. Some of its verses are decisive - they are the foundation of the Book - while others are allegorical. Those whose hearts are infected with disbelief follow the allegorical part to mislead others and to give it their own interpretation, seeking for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah and Those who are well grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in it; it is all from our Rabb." None will take heed except the people of understanding.[3.7]
October 25, 2010 7:45 AM
Anonymous said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا قَبْلَكَ إِلاَّ رِجَالا ً نُوحِي إِلَيْهِمْ فَاسْأَلُوا أَهْلَ الذِّكْرِ إِنْ كُنتُمْ لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ
And We sent not before you but men to whom We inspired, so ask the people of the Reminder , if you do not know. (Al-Anbiya 21:7)
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِنْ قَبْلِكَ إِلاَّ رِجَالا ً نُوحِي إِلَيْهِمْ فَاسْأَلُوا أَهْلَ الذِّكْرِ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ
And We sent not before you any but men, whom We inspired, . So ask of the People of The Reminder , if you know not. (An-Nahl 16:43)
Know who is this Ahl of the Reminder?
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
أَعَدَّ اللَّهُ لَهُمْ عَذَابا ً شَدِيدا ً فَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ يَا أُوْلِي الأَلْبَابِ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا قَدْ أَنزَلَ اللَّهُ إِلَيْكُمْ ذِكْرا
Allāh has prepared for them a severe torment. So fear Allāh and keep your duty to Him, O men of understanding who have believed! - Allāh has indeed sent down to you a Reminder . (At-Talaq 65:10)بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
رَسُولا ً يَتْلُو عَلَيْكُمْ آيَاتِ اللَّهِ مُبَيِّنَات ٍ لِيُخْرِجَ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ مِنَ الظُّلُمَاتِ إِلَى النُّورِ وَمَنْ يُؤْمِنْ بِاللَّهِ وَيَعْمَلْ صَالِحا ً يُدْخِلْهُ جَنَّات ٍ تَجْرِي مِنْ تَحْتِهَا الأَنْهَارُ خَالِدِينَ فِيهَا أَبَدا ً قَدْ أَحْسَنَ اللَّهُ لَه ُُ رِزْق
a Messenger , who recites to you the Verses of Allāh (the Qur'ān) containing clear explanations, that He may take out, those who believe and do righteous good deeds from the darkness to the light (. And whosoever believes in Allāh and performs righteous good deeds, He will admit him into Gardens under which rivers flow (Paradise), to dwell therein forever. Allāh has indeed granted for him an excellent provision. (At-Talaq 65:11)
so We See this Reminder is Muhamamd(SWS)and his Ahl should be Asked if we know not.Now i cannot ask a Zaydi imam the Ta'wil of Verses because he has no Sanad.if according to your Aqidah Ali ibn Abi Talib(a.s)had nothing Supernatural about him,then of course your Zaydi imam has nothing sueprnatrual about him.
May Allah Protect us from the enemies of Ahl ul-Bayt(a.s).
October 25, 2010 7:47 AM
Ali said...
(correction to the above i ment to say ''Muhammad'')
also the ''sins''of Imams are good deeds,wich could have been done better.for example if ali(a.s)did not pray 5000 Prayers but just 5.
and the hadith regarding the Loins,this has no sanad,in our texts,and the Hadith fabricated by the Imams of Zaydis have no Weight on us,almost each sect has fabricated hadith to justify its own views.
We do not Beleive the Imams(a.s)Were Racists,we do not beelive the Lights of allah(SWT)were Favouritsts and oligarchists and nepotists!
zaydis are nepotists,because we have for example a good leader in Oman right now,a good leader in Libya,but worthless Tyrants in Hashemite countries and your last imam was a good example of this.but according to you the later is better ebcause he has some DNA the other mumin does not.
we believe Ahl ul-bayt have right on their virtues,and perfect pruification.what is the difference between your imam and any other ruler ,they both can opress others,they both are Fallible.
this is absolute Racism.
also the quran overrides any alleged ahdith and the Quran says:
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
سُنَّةَ اللَّهِ فِي الَّذِينَ خَلَوْا مِنْ قَبْلُ وَلَنْ تَجِدَ لِسُنَّةِ اللَّهِ تَبْدِيلا
This has been the Way of Allah regarding such people among those who lived before you, and you will never find any change in the Way of Allah.[33.62]
so when allah's sunnah was to appoint his rulers,then we cannot expect to find a change in this.
this includes othe rinnovations they have no basis.the whole zaydi sect is based on innovation.
furthermore it is the Wasi's job to interpret the Ta'wil and the verse about Rasikhuna Fi'l ilm proves this.
and allah's religion was completed on the day of Ghadeer,and that doesnt include changing from nass to election,ijtihad,qiyas or any other Innovation present within the Zaydi sect.
Imam muhamamd al-Baqir was Chosen as the Successer of imam Zayn al-abidin by the Prophet muhammad(SWS) himself,and ali's last speech shwos this.
it is super long but i will Quote it.
October 25, 2010 7:51 AM
Anonymous said...
Before this,he had singled out Hasan and Husayn for injunctions whereby he confided in them writing the names of the kings,the period of Existence of this World,and the names of the Da'is Till the Day of Ressurection.He Handed over to them the Quran and the book of Knowledge,then,when the people gathered around,ali said to them what he said.Then Ali wrote the testament as follows:
in the name of God,the mercifull the compassionate.This is the testament of the servant of God,Ali Ibn Abi TAlib,made in his last moments in this world,and away from the people and freinds.He bears witness that there is no diety other then god,who is unique and without associatte,and that muhammad is his slave,messenger,Trusted one,Blessings of God on him,his Progeny,and his fellow apostles and worthy descendants.
May God,on our behalf,requite Muhammad with the most excellent of requitals as may be made a prophet bu his community.I enjoiun you,O Hasan,those who are pr4esent from amongst the people of my house,my children,and my partisans,to all Fear god,''and die not save as those who have surrendered(i.e.become muslims),and hold fast ,all of you together to the Cable of Allah,and do not Seperate(Quran 3:102-103).(alternative Source Kafi,Volume 2,61-62 with slight variations)
For,Verily i have heard the messenger of God saying,The composing of differenced bwtween people of discord is better then all fasts and prayers'''.
I enjoin on you to take advantage of health before disease overtakes you and'' before a soul Should Say:Alas,my Grief that i was unmindfull of Allah,and i was indeed among the soffers!O'r should say:If Allah had but Guided me i shoudl have been among the dutifull!(Quran 39:56-57)But how and whence can this be now?for you were ruled by your passions;then will his sight be uncovered and his veils rent asunder in Accordance with God's
Word:Now We have removed from thee thy Covering,and piercing is thy Sight this Day(Quran 50:22).Whence can he have sight now?LO,did he not see the harm before this time and before the curtain was dropped on penitence by the descent of Calamity?and the soul desires if it could return,it would act in fear of God,but these Wishes are of No avail.
I Enjoin you to Avoid Passion,for Verily Passion leads to Blindness,and it is Straying from the right path both in this world and in the next.
I enjoin you to be sincere to
God;and Why should you not be sincerely devoted to God Who has Brought you forth from the loins of the polytheists and rescued you from the persistent denial of the Agnostics(Ahl-Al-Shakk Lit .people of Doubt)?So Worship Him out of hope and out of Awe.This will not go unrewarded by him.i enjoin on you to be sincerely devoted to Muhammad,the Righteouis guide and Messenger,and one of the Ways in Wich you show devotion to him is that you pay him his Dues.God Says:SAy(i.e O muhammad unto mankind):I ask you no fee therefor(i..e The Revelation),save for loving kindness towards my kinfold(Quran 42:23).a man who repays Muhammad his Dues showing affection towards his relations,has verily returned what was entrusted unto him.He who has not returned it,has become his
adversary,and he who become the prophets adversary,contends with the prophet,and he who contrends with the prophet,verily brings upon himself the Wrath of God and ''his Habitation in the fire,a Hapless Journey's End(Quran 3:162)
O People,Behold,Muhammad in nor Loved but For the Sake of God,and the Progeny of Muhammad are not Loved But for the Sake of Muhammad;so he who wishes may increase or decrease.I enjoin you to be affectionatte to us and be kind to our Partisans(Shi'atina),for he who does not do so,is not one of Us.I Enjoin you(to Love)the Companions of Muhammad who were not Innovators(LAM YUHDITHU HADATHAN),did not Shelter a Criminal(AWA MUHDITHAN),and did not not the right of (Ahl al-Bayt).For Surely,thre Messenger of God left them to our Care,adn cursed the innovaor amongst them and amongst others.
October 25, 2010 7:55 AM
Anonymous said...
Salam i Tried 20 ,times to post this ahdith,but the blog is acting Really Weird.
so you will have to See it here:
http://amiralmomineenkhutba.blogspot.com/2010/10/alis-last-sermon.html
clearly the apppointment of imam Muhammad al-Baqir(a.s)is Mentioned.
October 25, 2010 8:06 AM
Anonymous said...
Regarding who the imam is ,He is Tayyib Ibn Tayyib(a.s),it would be Advised to Read the first posts on this blog :)
Salat is not Defined in the Quran.Neither is hajj in complete Detail.this is why we have been ordered to Follow Ahl ul-bayt(a.s).
''''''''''''''''''You can never assume anyone will follow a person now if 1) the person is not mentioned directly in the quran 2) the person is not mentioned in the hadith that is 100% valid 3) they did not call to them self and taught people and showed how pious and noble that person is and show that they are a person that is aligned with the quran.''''''''''
1.in that case why follow ali(a.s)?
2.how do you determine wich hadith valid and not?after all ilm al-rijal is a Shafi'i By-Product and Ali Said:''Look at whats been said Rather then Who Said it''Never Deny a Hadith from Us wether it be from a Murji,Khariji or Nasibi there maybe some truth in it wich you have not Yet Grasped''
3.your definition of calling people is different then mine,you see the Isma'iliyah have a concept called Da'wah or Calling people to the Imam,and We have a Institution called ''Da'i''to do this.While Isma'iliyah would call people Intellectuelly and thru variouis Techniques,the Zaydis have one method of Calling:the Sword.
all our imams called people to themselves and we built Universitites for this Prupose,the Isma'ili Da'wah Reached so far the abbassids had to Create the Baghdad Manifesto to counter us!
http://www.experiencefestival.com/baghdad_manifesto
the Fact is Calling people Towards the imamate is a Isma'ili Phenomenon and you should not mistake us for Twelvers who stay Quietly in their homes!
Finally our Da'i has all the books Written by the Imams and their Representatives wich contain Ta'wil and Tafsir of the Quran.Qadhi nu'man also made a Tafsir of the Quran authorized by Our Caliphs.
in india,the mughal ruler had found the books of Ta'wil in the Library of one Da'i.After that he Went Crazy.
they Beheaded this Da'i for his book of Ta'wil.
our Ta'wil can also be found here:
http://www.amaana.org/muayyad/muaycont.htm
Life and Lectures of Al Muayyad fid-din al Shirazi
Majalis-ul Muayyadiya - by Al Muayyad fid-din Shirazi he was a top Da'i of imam al-mustansir(a.s).
Hamid al-Deen al-kirmani the top Da'i of imam al-Hakim bi amrAllah(SWS)Also Contribuetd to what is now Tayyibi Theology.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamid_al-Din_al-Kirmani
his works Are:
Rahat al-‘aql (Peace of Mind, or Comfort of Reason), completed in 1020 and considered his magnum opus
Al-Aqwal al-dhahabiya, refuting al-Razi's argument against the necessity of revelation Kitab al-riyad, a book that propounds the early Isma'ili cosmology.
October 25, 2010 8:24 AM
Ali said...
Also Isma'ilis believe Knowledge comes in stages,Meaning,i work my way up to gaining the knowledge,among Dawoodi bohra jama'at this goes so Strict they cant read any Ta'wil books until completing the Books of shari'ah,and then with the Permission of their Da'i they can Read books of Haqiqat(i.e. Ta'wil).
To Yemeni Isma'ilis who follow the sulaymani Jama'at they are more open then them!
and also i Tell people im an Athiest,because i live in the West,and life is too complicated here to say your a muslim.
but that deosnt mean im not a muslim!
maybe they felt Scared,as you know Zaydis are not a tolerant people!
and most Isma'ilis Are Bedouin,and maybe they dont know much of their Religon to answer your Questions.Bedouins have little time to Study,As allah(SWT) Gave me that privelage,al-Hamdulillah!
also Isma'ilis do not Translate the quran,and many Isma'ilis are Ignorant of the Quran because they dont Speak Arabic.they believe Translating the Quran is Haram.as Arabic is a distinct Language
Imam ahmed al-Mastoor(A.S)Says in Ikhwan al-Safa : Just as the human form is the last phase of the development of living being, so the Arabic language is the perfection of all languages and its script the perfection of calligraphy."
what i am doing is Wrong!
so maybe thats why they cant answer your Questions.
also you quoted:''ما يريد الله ان يذهب عنكم الرجس اهل البيت ويطهركم تطهيرا”''So why do you say your imams are From ahl ul-bayt?
your own interpretation refutes your own Beleifs!
notice the word :'' يريد الله''and ''يطهركم''
thsi si in continuation form.he did not Say Qad rad allah or Qad Tahirkum Tathiran he said :yutahirakum Tahriran(يطهركم تطهيرا) meaning this is continuouis and not Past tence.
any one who will come from Ahl ul-Bayt will be thus Perfectly Purifed.
just as the verses in quran call to those who Beleive!
but it refers to all beleivers ,in all times,and all Places and not just those during the time and city wich the Verse was Revealed!
fruthermore allah Said :وَإِذْ قَالَ رَبُّكَ لِلْمَلاَئِكَةِ إِنِّي جَاعِل ٌ فِي الأَرْضِ خَلِيفَة ً قَالُوا أَتَجْعَلُ فِيهَا مَنْ يُفْسِدُ فِيهَا وَيَسْفِكُ الدِّمَاءَ وَنَحْنُ نُسَبِّحُ بِحَمْدِكَ وَنُقَدِّسُ لَكَ قَالَ إِنِّي أَعْلَمُ مَا لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ
Notice''إِنِّي جَاعِل ٌ فِي الأَرْضِ خَلِيفَة''(i.e Ja3ilun not Ja3ilu)Implying continuation.meaning allah will Maker a Khalifah in the Earth always,and it does not refr to one Khalifah.
notice he will make the khalifah in the Earth and not You :)
Allah (سبحانه وتعالى)Wants ambassadors.
Allah(سبحانه وتعالى) Does not Want Self-Proclaimed Screw -ups!
October 25, 2010 8:47 AM
Ali said...
Furthermore ''''ما يريد الله ان يذهب عنكم الرجس اهل البيت ويطهركم تطهيرا”
Would contradict your imamate because it mentioned that the Ahl Ul-Bayt Are PErfectly Purified.
Shi'a muslims Interpret that as Ali(a.s)Not being Najis ever,and that He Does not Require Wudhu.I Find it a Insult Towards Ahl Ul-Bayt(a.s)When Twelvers Say:Imam Hussain(a.s)Did not Pray Salat Al-khawf Because he was Drenched in Blood''
What!his Blood is Tahir,and no Najis can Come to Him You People!
Also since you Admit your Imams Were not Prufied,they would be excluded from Ahl Ul-Bayt(a.s).Allah Said:
سَنَفْرُغُ لَكُمْ أَيُّهَا الثَّقَلاَنِ
We shall attend to you, O you two HeavyWheights!(Ar-Rahman 55:31)
the Transliteration is :Sanafrughu Lakum Ayyuha THAQALAYN
And the Hadith Al-Thaqalayn mentions quran and Ahl Ul-Bayt(a.s)being ther Two ''Heavywheights''wich we shoudl Adhere too ,
قام رسول الإسلام (صلَّى الله عليه وآله) يوماً فينا خطيباً بماء يدعى خُماً بين مكة والمدينة، فحمد الله وأثنى عليه، ووعظ وذكَّر، ثم قال :" أما بعد، ألا أيها الناس، فإنّما أنا بشر يوشك أن يأتي رسول ربي فأجيب، وأنا تارك فيكم ثقلين، أولهما كتاب الله فيه الهدى والنور، فخذوا بكتاب الله واستمسكوا به " فحَثَّ على كتاب الله ورغَّبَ فيه، ثم قال :" وأهل بيتي، أذكِّرَكُمُ الله في أهل بيتي، أذكِّرَكُمُ الله في أهل بيتي، أذكِّرَكُمُ الله في أهل بيتي "
it Looks like All Your Imams after Al-Sajjad (besides Abi Jaafar and Abu Abdullah)were Not True Imams!
and your Argment concerning Atributtes,One Cannot Be Good and Bad at the Same Time.Oen Can not be Knowledgable and Ignorant at the Same time.
Water and Fire cannot Co-exist at the same time.Light and Darkness cannot co-exist at the same time.The only ones that can be Described as ''knowledgable(Alimun)is the Rasikhuna Fi'l ilm.One Who learns shwos he had Ignorance,since otherwise he wouldnt need to learn.
English Translation)Ali ibn Ibrahim has narrated from Muhammad ibn ‘Isa from Yunus from Jamil who has said
AL KAFI - H 56, Ch. 3, h4
Ali ibn Ibrahim has narrated from Muhammad ibn ‘Isa from Yunus from Jamil who has said
the following: “I heard Imam abu ‘Abd Allah, recipient of divine supreme covenant, saying,
‘People become of three groups: Scholars, those who learn and garbled ones. We are the
scholars. Our followers are the ones who learn. The rest of the people are garbled ones.”
Secondly when The Prophet said:I am the city of Knowledge and ali is its Gate(ana Madinat Al-ilm Wa aliyan Al-babah)he mentioend Al-Ilm All Knowledge.and Al-Raskhuna Fi'l Ilm have The ilm.
further more ali Said:Do not allow favouritism and nepotism to force you to violate your duties to God and man, and drive you towards tyranny and oppression.
While selecting officers take care that you do not select such persons as have served tyrannical and oppressive rulers and have been responsible for atrocities and savage cruelties.
This Contradicts the Zaydi imamate wich is based on exactly what ali i Warning us of.
May allah(SWT) lead us to His path!
October 25, 2010 11:20 AM
Ali said...
Also if You Say the imams must Follow Attributes,well you say the imam must be Just,but in order to be Just he must not be Tyrannical in the least,this is Impossible for the non-Masoom.
And the verse says
''''ما يريد الله ان يذهب عنكم الرجس اهل البيت ويطهركم تطهيرا”
meaning Allah will keep the Ahl Ul-Bayt from Al-
Rijs,now you can Claim allah keeps your imams From Al-Rijs,By as far as i know Zaydis dont beelive in Fatalism and do not say a Person's Good or bad actions are Controled by allah.
you say Teh Ahl Al-kisa(Alayhum Al-Salam)Were only Immune to the Kabaa'ir.
Allah Said:
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
إِنْ تَجْتَنِبُوا كَبَائِرَ مَا تُنْهَوْنَ عَنْهُ نُكَفِّرْ عَنْكُمْ سَيِّئَاتِكُمْ وَنُدْخِلْكُمْ مُدْخَلا ً كَرِيم
If you avoid the great sins which you are forbidden to do, We shall remit from you your (small) sins, and admit you to a Noble Entrance (i.e. Paradise). (An-Nisa 4:31)بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
الَّذِينَ يَجْتَنِبُونَ كَبَائِرَ الإِثْمِ وَالْفَوَاحِشَ إِلاَّ اللَّمَمَ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ وَاسِعُ الْمَغْفِرَةِ هُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِكُمْ إِذْ أَنشَأَكُمْ مِنَ الأَرْضِ وَإِذْ أَنْتُمْ أَجِنَّة ٌ فِي بُطُونِ أُمَّهَاتِكُمْ فَلاَ تُزَكُّوا أَنفُسَكُمْ هُوَ أَعْلَمُ بِمَنِ اتَّقَى
Those who avoid great sins and Al-Fawāhish (illegal sexual intercourse, etc.) except the small faults, verily, your Lord is of vast forgiveness. He knows you well when He created you from the earth, and when you were fetuses in your mothers' wombs. So ascribe not purity to yourselves. He knows best him who fears Allāh and keep his duty to Him An-Najm 53:32)
Now The Quran Mentions 7 Kabaa'ir wich are different then the Hadith
:بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
قُلْ تَعَالَوْا أَتْلُ مَا حَرَّمَ رَبُّكُمْ عَلَيْكُمْ أَلاَّ تُشْرِكُوا بِه ِِ شَيْئا ً وَبِالْوَالِدَيْنِ إِحْسَانا ً وَلاَ تَقْتُلُوا أَوْلاَدَكُمْ مِنْ إِمْلاَق ٍ نَحْنُ نَرْزُقُكُمْ وَإِيَّاهُمْ وَلاَ تَقْرَبُوا الْفَوَاحِشَ مَا ظَهَرَ مِنْهَا وَمَا بَطَنَ وَلاَ تَقْتُلُوا النَّفْسَ الَّتِي حَرَّمَ اللَّهُ إِلاَّ بِالْحَقِّ ذَلِكُمْ وَصَّاكُمْ بِه ِِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَعْقِلُونَ
Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Come, I will recite what your Lord has prohibited you from: Join not anything in worship with Him; be good and dutiful to your parents; kill not your children because of poverty - We provide sustenance for you and for them; come not near to Al-Fawāhish (shameful sins, illegal sexual intercourse, etc.) whether committed openly or secretly, and kill not anyone whom Allāh has forbidden, except for a just cause (according to Islāmic law). This He has commanded you that you may understand. (Al-An'am 6:151)بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
وَلاَ تَقْرَبُوا مَالَ الْيَتِيمِ إِلاَّ بِالَّتِي هِيَ أَحْسَنُ حَتَّى يَبْلُغَ أَشُدَّه ُُ وَأَوْفُوا الْكَيْلَ وَالْمِيزَانَ بِالْقِسْطِ لاَ نُكَلِّفُ نَفْسا ً إِلاَّ وُسْعَهَا وَإِذَا قُلْتُمْ فَاعْدِلُوا وَلَوْ كَانَ ذَا قُرْبَى وَبِعَهْدِ اللَّهِ أَوْفُوا ذَلِكُمْ وَصَّاكُمْ بِه ِِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَذَكَّرُونَ
And come not near to the orphan's property, except to improve it, until he (or she) attains the age of full strength; and give full measure and full weight with justice. We burden not any person, but that which he can bear. And whenever you give your word say the truth even if a near relative is concerned, and fulfill the Covenant of Allāh, This He commands you, that you may remember. (Al-An'am 6:152)
Thats Interesting,there are 7 Kabaa'ir to my Knowledge:According to the Hadith found in Bukhari and Muslim they Are :
"associating anything with Allah; magic; killing one whom Allah has declared inviolate without a just case, consuming the property of an orphan, devouring usury, turning back when the army advances, and slandering chaste women who are believers but indiscreet."
Meaning you Accuse Ali of having been able to commit Many Crimes!
(I am Refering to The quranic Definition of the 7 Kabaa'ir and not the one in teh Hadith)
(if we take the one in the Hadith to Be True,then You accuse Ali of Beign able to commit Various Crimes!)
May allah Protect us From That!
October 25, 2010 11:45 AM
Ali said...
concerning the imam isma'il ibn Jafar(a.s)my Posts are being deleted Automaticly,but Insha'Allah later they will Be Available.
His mother was a Highly Auristicratic lady,She was Fatima bint al-Hussain al-Athram bin al-Hasan bin Ali A Sayyida From the Hasani Lineage.
Imam Jafar Al-Sadiq also was a Hasani Thru His mother Umm Farwa,or a Muhammadui Thru Umm Farwa (Fatimah bint Al-Qasim ibn Muhammad ibn Abi Bakr)
Imam Al-Baqir had to Wives named Umm Farwa,and one was a Hasani sayyida,it is not Clear who was the mother of Al-imam Jafar Al-Sadiq
Imam al-Baqir was also a Hasani thru his mother Fātimah bint al-Hasan ibn ‘Alī
so 3 in a Row!
Imam Jafar Al-Sadiq Said Concernign Isma'il :
''He is the Imam after me, and what you learn from him is just the same as if you have learnt it from myself''
the Trusted companions of imam Jafar al-Sadiq Followed Imam Isma'il
Such As Abu Hamza Thabit bin Abu Sufiya Dinar as-Samali (d. 150/767), a mawla (freed slave) from Kufa. Jafar Sadiq is reported to have said that Abu Hamza was in his time like Salman al-Farisi in his own time (Abu Hamza fi zamani'hi mithl Salman fi zamani'hi).
and the Twelvers uphold his virtue,and Narrate du'a From Him(like du'a Abu Hamzah Al-Thamali mentioend by Al-Saduq a Shi'ah Writer).
October 25, 2010 12:51 PM
Zabarah said...
Again you are writing the same stuff you said before. Brother you write stuff and stay it is from Albahr alzakhar. READ THE BOOK AND COMPARE!!!!!! DONT LIE AND SAY IT IS FROM OUR BOOKS.
Actual text number one وَيَصِحُّ إكْرَاهُ الْمَرْأَةِ فَيَسْقُطُ الْحَدُّ وَالْإِثْمُ حَيْثُ لَا تَمَكُّنَ مِنْ الدَّفْعِ ، he is saying that a raped woman is not punished or sinfull. but she is sinful if she is able to push away and doesnt. NO TUGYAH
Actual text وَيُبَاحُ مَالُ الْغَيْرِ بِالْإِكْرَاهِ بِشَرْطِ الضَّمَانِ كَالِاضْطِرَارِ That you can for example take water from by force if you are afraid of dying from thirst.
and so is eating what is not permissible only if you are going to die of thrist or hunger or someone will stab you to death if you dont do what he/she says.
Here is the criteria for tugia إمَّا بِقَتْلٍ أَوْ قَطْعِ عُضْوٍ أَوْ ضَرْبٍ أَوْ طَعْنٍ بِذِي حَدٍّ ، وَهَذَا مُؤْثَرٌ إجْمَاعًا (translation if you wil be directly killed, or a part of your body will be severed, or a severe beating or being stabbed) that is knowing 100% that this will happen. and then he says ،
وَتَرْكُ مَا أُكْرِهَ عَلَيْهِ أَفْضَلُ وَإِنْ قُتِلَ لِتَفْضِيلِهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَآلِهِ وَسَلَّمَ إيمَانَ يَاسِرٍ لَمَّا صَبَرَ عَلَى الْقَتْلِ .
If he dies not do tugyah then that is better for him/her such as Yasser when he died denouncing shirk.
Brother: telling westerners you are atheist is not necessary. you should be proud and call them to our religion.
Sunnis are not my concern I am not Sunni.
All you gave me from the quran are attributes not names. This tells us that to know who to follow depends on their attributes.
Where is your Imam? DO you follow an Imam or Dai?
Imam Zaid has more Ahadith than Albaqir and there is an Ayah to show which Imam is to be followed.
The prophet once looked at Zayd ibn Harithah, cried, and said "The martyr in the sake of Allah, The crucified of my people, The oppressed from my progeny, his name is thus." Then the prophet pointed at Zayd ibn Harithah and said "Come closer to me, your name became more dear to me because it is the same as my dear child (Zaid.)"
October 25, 2010 8:13 PM
Zabarah said...
Imam Muhammad al-Baqir narrated: "The Holy Prophet put his sacred hand on Husayn bin Ali's back and said: 'O Husayn, it will not be long until a man will be born among your descendants. He will be called Zaid; he will be killed as a martyr. On the day of resurrection, he and his companions will enter heaven, setting their feet on the necks of the people.'"
لاَّ يَسْتَوِي الْقَاعِدُونَ مِنَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ غَيْرُ أُوْلِي الضَّرَرِ )وَالْمُجَاهِدُونَ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ بِأَمْوَالِهِمْ وَأَنفُسِهِمْ فَضَّلَ اللّهُ الْمُجَاهِدِينَ بِأَمْوَالِهِمْ وَأَنفُسِهِمْ عَلَى الْقَاعِدِينَ دَرَجَةً وَكُلاًّ وَعَدَ اللّهُ الْحُسْنَى وَفَضَّلَ اللّهُ الْمُجَاهِدِينَ عَلَى الْقَاعِدِينَ أَجْرًا عَظِيمًا(
Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home). Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward;
Also the Imam alnafs alzakya has Ahadith that 12rs agree with us in.
If it is a written scripture that the Imams are those by name not attribute then why cant you agree with the Aga khans????? why cant you agree with the 12rs???? Where is the proof of appointed names?
YOu have no Imam now. where is your Imam in Gheeba? who teachs and show you the way? the Imam? Where can I meet him to listen from him?
if you are accusing us of nepotism which is what you are doing yourself. you are saying monarchy is better. these are the Imams what ever they may do?????at least in Zaidies if an Imam is not righteous then he must be changed.
also, you are conflicting your self. You said that you call to your Imam. but earlier you said you didnt and that you only grow by marriage. ?????
In yemen we dont have influence. On the contrary we are persecuted! Ismalies have influence and money and they give big presents to the president. Zaidies are hated by all rulers and everybody knows that! which is odd that you blame zaidies ismailies don't admit to be ismailies???
Zaidies fight only the tyrants and the oppressors to put allahs command above them. they live in harmony with other groups and call them the peaceful way.
P.S. Zaida. this site deletes posts. which is tiring. :)
October 25, 2010 8:14 PM
Anonymous said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
لاَ يَسْتَوِي الْقَاعِدُونَ مِنَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ غَيْرُ أُوْلِي الضَّرَرِ وَالْمُجَاهِدُونَ فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ بِأَمْوَالِهِمْ وَأَنفُسِهِمْ فَضَّلَ اللَّهُ الْمُجَاهِدِينَ بِأَمْوَالِهِمْ وَأَنفُسِهِمْ عَلَى الْقَاعِدِينَ دَرَجَة ً وَكُلاّ ً وَعَدَ اللَّهُ الْحُسْنَى وَفَضَّلَ اللَّهُ الْمُجَاهِدِينَ عَلَى الْقَاعِدِينَ أَجْراً عَظِيما
Now this Verse Mentions the word ''''Al-Mujahidun''(الْمُجَاهِدُونَ) and not ''Qatil Fi SabilAllah''or Al-Muqatilun Fi sabilAllah(SWT).its Advized to Look at the Quran before Quoting it.The word Qatil is mentioned NOWHERE IN THE VERSE.
''وَالْمُجَاهِدُونَ فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ بِأَمْوَالِهِمْ وَأَنفُسِهِمْ ''and mujahideen in the Way of allah(SW),With their Wealth( بِأَمْوَالِهِمْ )
And their Selves(وَأَنفُسِهِمْ),)nowhere it says Bi Suyufahum(with their Swords)Or Bi Tayaaratahum Al-Harb(with their Warplanes)!
Notice the Words Clearly''وَالْمُجَاهِدُونَ فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ بِأَمْوَالِهِمْ وَأَنفُسِهِمْ''
meaning anyone who performs Jihad for the sake of Allah.it is Interesting that allah specifies Wich Type of Jihad ,He is Talking About.
''with their Wealth and their Selves''The Translations of the Qur'an have translated Bi Anfusihim as ''With their lives''when anfusihim means Selves(Nafs The Singular means Self)
The Imams(a.s)Practiced Jihad with Their Tongues,Their Wealth,and Their Hearts.
and yes later with their Swords.
As you know according to The Hadith of Rasoolallah(SWS),if one cannot commit jihad against the disbeleivers with their Swords,they should do it with their Wealth(بِأَمْوَالِهِمْ),if they cannot do it with their wealth,they should do it with their tongue,if they cannot do it with their tongue,they should do it with their hearts.
So this would Not Contradict our Beleif in the Hidden Imams(a.s)As they practiced jihad with their Selves!
And it is a Pillar of Islam,To Practice Jihad!So If a Ordinary Momin will do this,We Cannot Expect any Masoom Imam to Not Perform the Jihad!
Furthermore the Words of Allah(SWT):وَإِذْ قَالَ رَبُّكَ لِلْمَلاَئِكَةِ إِنِّي جَاعِل ٌ فِي الأَرْضِ خَلِيفَة ً قَالُوا أَتَجْعَلُ فِيهَا مَنْ يُفْسِدُ فِيهَا وَيَسْفِكُ الدِّمَاءَ وَنَحْنُ نُسَبِّحُ بِحَمْدِكَ وَنُقَدِّسُ لَكَ قَالَ إِنِّي أَعْلَمُ مَا لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ
There is a Difference Between aja3alu(أَتَجْعَلُ) and Ja3ilun ( جَاعِل )wich is Used in the Verse To Describe Him Making The Khalifah.Allah has Clearly stated that he will continouisly make a Khalifah in the Earth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Notice he mentions the Word'' قَالُوا أَتَجْعَلُ فِيهَا مَنْ يُفْسِدُ فِيهَا وَيَسْفِكُ الدِّمَاءَ وَنَحْنُ نُسَبِّحُ بِحَمْدِكَ وَنُقَدِّسُ لَكَ قَالَ إِنِّي أَعْلَمُ مَا لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ
They(the angels)Said will you make(i.e aja3alu)them even though they will cause Bloodhsed in the Earth,and allah Replies Surely i Know what you Know not( إِنِّي أَعْلَمُ مَا لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ)
Whereas when allah Says:وَإِذْ قَالَ رَبُّكَ لِلْمَلاَئِكَةِ إِنِّي جَاعِل ٌ فِي الأَرْضِ خَلِيفَة
And when your Lord Said To the Angels:Surely,i will Create a Khalifah in the Earth.
He Mentions Ja3ilun wich implies a continious Creation!
Also Why Are You Attacking us for not having a Physically Present Imam,when you Have no imam,Wether Physically or Otherwise?????????????????????????????????????????????????
October 26, 2010 11:22 AM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
In Regards To your first question:
[Who is your Imam. The Dai is not Imam is he? who appointed him?]
the Da'i is a Deputy of the Imam(a.s),and he Was appointed by the Imam(a.s),Each Da'i appoints the Next Da'i when he Receives Instructions from the Imam(a.s).
Regarding your Second Question :
(after him Came the Period of Satr or Secret Mission) [Why? What is different that the mission became secret??]
The Abbassids Wanted to Kill Imam Isma'il Ibn Jafar(عليه السلام ),As He Had Been Appointed As the Imam Many times During the Life of Al-Imam Jafar Al-Sadiq.
Imam Isma'il(عليه السلام )Was summoned to The Court of the Abbassids and Al-Imam Jafar Al-Sadiq(عليه السلام )had Prayed to allah to Save him,Thus he Was Saved.Imam Isma'il had a Twin Brother Named Abdullah al-Aflah(R.A)and he Was Buried in a Cascet and the Governer of Medina Testified imam Isma'il died(عليه السلام ),but it Was not Imam Isma'il(عليه السلام ),It Was Abdullah Al-Aflah,Imam Isma'il was known by Variouis Names such as al-Mubarak,Abu'l-Khattab Al-Asadi,And His Followers the Isma'iliyah in the period of Hiding Were known as The ''Mubarikkiyah''and the ''Khattabiya'',Imam Jafar Al-adiq denounced Imam Isma'il Publicly For his Association with Abu'l Khattab al-Asadi,when this was to Save his olife From teh abbassid suspicion,and In Fact Imam Isma'il(a.s)Was known as Abu'l-Khattab al-Asadi.
Imam Isma'il Fled Medina,when Al-dhunafs Al-Zakiya Led his Revolt agaisnt The abbassids,the city was in upheavel,and He Feld with the Caravans that Were Leaving,He Was Calling People to his Imamate in Secret,and One Blind Man,in Bosra,syria, Saw him and Was Healed By His Du'a(Prayer to allah),After That News Spread Imam Isma'il(عليه السلام ) Was alive,and The abbassids had Caught him Once again,the governer was told to Bring Him to the Court of the Abbassids,and The Governer Converted to the Isma'ili Form of Islam,and Said Imam Isma'il died,thereby he Helped him.
Imam Isma'il would Appoint imam Muhammad Ibn Isma'il as the imam After him.
At This time,Imam Musa Al-Kadhim .The Younger Brother of Imam Isma'il and the Uncle of Imam Muhammad Ibn Isma'il,Was Claiming Imamate Only to Diverge Attention Away From Imam Muhammad Ibn Isma'il.
After This the Imam after him was
Abdullah Ibn Muhammad then Ahmed ibn Abdullah and then Husayn Ibn Ahmed,they were Known By Various Identities,in this Time,the Da'i's would make their Followers Pay allegiance to the Imam Whoever he is,and wherever he may Be.
only the Top Da'is of the imam knew who He Was.
and their names have been revealed to us at a later Date.
October 26, 2010 11:28 AM
Ali said...
In This time Our Imams(a.s)Wrote the Ikhwan Al-Safa,One of the most Influential works ever Appearing in the muslim World sicne 1400 Years that rpophet Muhammad(SWS)Was gone!
http://dawoodi-bohras.com/news/88/64/Ikhwanus-Safa-A-rational-and-liberal-approach-to-Islam/d,pdb_detail_article/
It is Called:''Ikhwanus Safa: A rational and liberal approach to Islam
''
It Is a recommended Read.
it was intended to refute the ''Mutazila',and the Greek doctrines they were Bringing into Islam.
it must be Noted the Mutazila Were Employed by the Abbassids to attack Islam,and create doubt,and Mistrust in Our Religion.
They Wrote This in Salamia ,Syria.
Husayn's Son Sa'id or abdullah ibn Husayn Would migrate From Syria to Qayrawan(Modern Day tunisia)and End the period of hiding,He Would Be Called Al-Mahdi Bi'llah and he would find the fatimid Dynasty,whos Borders would Reach From Morrocco To Yemen.
in 909 Imam Al-Mahdi(عليه السلام )Rose up agaisnt the Aghlabid dynasty and the Rustamid dynasty wich were Vassals of the abbassids.
He Would Create The Fatimid State,and a Safe haven for His Isma'ili Followers,to Openly Practice their Faith.
His Da'i Al-Mansur Al-Yaman Would conquer Yemen.
and that was the end of The First Period of Satr,Or hiding!
October 26, 2010 11:31 AM
zabarah said...
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
و به نستعين
All what you say can be refuted but i will make it short and simple no need to repeat the same stuff over and over. we are hear to find the truth and not waste time with lots of maybes.
1)We follow people from ahlulbayt who are eligible for Imamah and they have been strugling for this. read some news about sadah. which you can meet.
2) I want to meet your Imam. if you say I cant learn and hear from him. then i am sorry you are not following ahlulbayt. you are following non ahlul bayt and remember what the prophet said in althagalain hadith.
3) You said the imams are named by allah to prophet mohamad. where is the quran quote or hadith quote that is 100% valid with the exact names for all.
و الحمد لله علام الغيوب
October 26, 2010 12:10 PM
Anonymous said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
Isa(a.s)did not Perform Jihad in the Violent Way(Bi Qatil)but he was a Great Mujahid.
The Prophet Muhammad(SWS)Did not perform Jihad in his Early Years,Ammar ibn Yassir did not Die at the hands of the Opressive rulers of Quraish,but at the Battle of siffin,Modern day Ar-Raqqah,Syria
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Siffin
and he was 99 Years old.the Prophet Said:''Wahayk Wahayk Ya Ibnu Sumaya,Taqtuluka Fiya hul Baghiya''
congragulations,Congragulations O son of Summaya,you will Be Killed by a Rebbeliouis Group!
(We all know the quran says the Rebbeliouis Group will go to Hell)
when the companions of ali,Recited this to the Soldiers of Mu'awiyah,Mu'awayah had Asserted:it was not me who killed him.but ali,Because ali Sent him Here!
so i dont know Who told you Ammar ibn Yassir died at the hands of the Quraish Opressive rulers when He had fought for ali,until his Last days,May the mercy of alla and his Blessings Be upon all His companions.
Allah Says:
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
وَكَذَّبُوا وَاتَّبَعُوا أَهْوَاءَهُمْ وَكُلُّ أَمْر ٍ مُسْتَقِرّ
And they call (it) a lie, and follow their low desires; and every affair has its appointed term.(Al-Qamar 54:3)
''Wa Kullu Amrin mustaqqirun''so at the time Imam Zayn al-abideen was not the appointed time for Rising up in violence,At the time of Imam Isma'il(a.s)It was not teh appointed time to Rise up in violence,At the time of Imam Al-Mahdi bi'llah(a.s)it Was!
BESIDES NOWHERE in the quran its says a imam must rise up in violence,nor the Hadith.This is Rather a Ibadhi Beleif incorporated into Zaydism.
Just like many Ibadhi Beleifs Incorporated into Zaydism.
furthermore,I ment to Say there were 6 Rasool al-Adham and 7 Nutaqa,the last of them will Be Qa'im al-qiyamah.
also do Zaydi's Beleive allah(SWT)Created the Heaven and Earth in 6 Days?
If so,this would be a Erronouis Beleif,allah Says:بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
مَا كَانَ لِلَّهِ أَنْ يَتَّخِذَ مِنْ وَلَد ٍ ۖ سُبْحَانَهُ~ُ ۚ إِذَا قَضَى أَمْرا ً فَإِنَّمَا يَقُولُ لَه ُُ كُنْ فَيَكُونُ
It befits not (the Majesty of) Allāh that He should beget a son [this refers to the slander of Christians against Allāh, by saying that 'Iesa (Jesus) is the son of Allāh]. Glorified (and Exalted be He above all that they associate with Him). When He decrees a thing, He only says to it, "Be!" and it is[]. (Maryam 19:35)
''notice'' إِذَا قَضَى أَمْرا ً فَإِنَّمَا يَقُولُ لَه ُُ كُنْ فَيَكُونُ
''Idha Qađa 'Amran Fa'innama Yaqulu Lahu Kun Fayakun''so alalh clearly states he when he wills osmething to ber Created he only says to It:Be and It Is!
furthermore allah is Above Time,and it would be Erronious to Say it takes him 6 Days to complete something!
as the moon defines a day and the moon had not been Created Yet!
and taking time to complete somethign indicates Weakness and limitation to compete it at a more rapid pace!
this is ebcause Al-Mu'ayyadh fi'l-deen Al-shirazi explained this,he said it refers to the 6 Ambiya al-Nutaqa(Adam,Nuh,Ibrahim,Musa,Isa,muhammad)
al-shirazi Says:''The heavens and earth do not mean the heavens and earth with which we are familiar and the days do not mean the days in the sense in which we understand them. They refer to the different ranks of the Natiqs who are in charge of the taweel, which moulds our intellect and souls into new forms. ''
furthermore do zaydis beleive the body will be Ressurected or just the soul?
October 26, 2010 12:13 PM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
Even the Verse Before An-nisa 4:95 does not define this Jihad as bi qatil
it says :
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا إِذَا ضَرَبْتُمْ فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ فَتَبَيَّنُوا وَلاَ تَقُولُوا لِمَنْ أَلْقَى إِلَيْكُمُ السَّلاَمَ لَسْتَ مُؤْمِنا ً تَبْتَغُونَ عَرَضَ الْحَيَاةِ الدُّنْيَا فَعِنْدَ اللَّهِ مَغَانِمُ كَثِيرَة ٌ كَذَلِكَ كُنتُمْ مِنْ قَبْلُ فَمَنَّ اللَّهُ عَلَيْكُمْ فَتَبَيَّنُوا إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ خَبِيرا
no Mention of Qatil!Allah would have used Qatil fi sabilallah if he ment that.
also you Say ali was a sinner.in this Case why follow the quran?
How do you know the quran is 100%authentic?
how do you know husyan wasnt Lying for soem money,when he Said(According to you)the imamate shall come with election?
a lie is among As-Saghaa'ir and not al-Kabaa'ir.furthermore,maybe he made a mistake(According to your Sunni/Ibadhi Aqidah)
Also the Jarudiyah Clearly stated ''he who is a mushrik who calls hismelf a imam,and draws the curtains in his home''and its funny that the Zaydiyah ascribed the samwe wording to Imam jafar al-Sadiq(a.s)when claiming he didnt claim to be a Imam!
Coudlnt you have Thought of something better?
1.i use the quran when Defining imamate,The quran says it is by appointment,and you will Find no Change in the sunnayh of Allah(SWT)
2.there are Hadith were ali says Abu Bakr Are Greater then him.if its that easy for the sunni's to Fabricate this Hadith,the power Hungry Zaydi imams had every possibility to fabricate these Hadiths
3.The Agha khani's and twelvers like Zaydis followed Self-proclaimed imams,73 Sects,if they had obeyed the imam before the splits they wouldnt have been in this mess.
4.what is up with :Jarudiyya,Sulaimaniyya.Salihiyah,dukayniyah,Khalifiyah,Khashabiyyah,why didnt they follow the same imams?
5.the hadith you quoted by al-Baqir is correct,but nowehere,oes it say he is a Imam.
6.Hadith al-Lahw (where Imam al-Baqir is appointed by The Prophet(SWS)is Transmitted by both Shi'ah and sunni,and Authenticated as Sahih.
7.i remind you to look at my posts,and go through my Arguments Clearly
8.plz answer my questions,all of them in regards to the replies i gave on yours.
plz dont challenge the quran!and plz take heed to the fact you cant be 2 qualities at the same time!
9.Allah Tests the Beleivers with the Seclusion of the imam(as.),you cannot Talk to him,Only the Da'i can do that.
10.just as a Kindergarden student will not be able to Understand a University Student,a person at the lowest level of Ilm in Isma'iliyah will not be allowwed to read the books of the Higher stages ,until he has Earned it.this is why little knowledge is among the common populace.this is why our Theology is not out in the open.
October 26, 2010 12:33 PM
Ali said...
also the Twelvers had tooken the concept of 12 imams from the Persian Eschathology(Majusiyah Aqidah).
I am a Persiologist and i know this.all sources state this.even Iranians state this.
They Are :
1.Farvardīn
2.Ordībehešt
3.Xordād
4.Tīr
5.Mordād
6.Šahrīvar
7.Mehr
8.Ābān
9.Āzar
10.Dey
11.Bahman
12.Esfand
they were the 12 Yazata's(literally in Pahlavi meaning ''Worthy of Veneration')and Were "the good powers under Ohrmuzd," (Cheif diety of the Majusiyah)
the abbassids,Who were mostly persian,and theyre Palace people,and Palace Advizors were mainly zoroastrian.(al-Mamun is a Great example of a Half Persian Caliph)had Incorporated this Into Islam!
we say the last imam will be the 98th,but we Say the imam is the one with ''Wasaya,(Will)Weapon(sayf) and Sheild''also,unlike you,it is not Nepotism,because we say their right to imamate is based on their Virtues,charactyersistics,and Good Intentions rather then theyre Lineage Exclusively.
in fact we and Zaydis Agree on this.however we
say a imam must be 100% just,and you say he must only be 50%!
also,why not reconize the king of oman as a imam right now?let me guess, because he isnt a Sayyid!(and a Zaydi,but wait other imams of yours Weren't Zaydis!)
we dont,because he is not Masoom,and allah gave him no right to call himself that,just like your imams have no right to call themselves,that the proof of this is what i have mentioend in the above
it is easily Manifest for the Truth-Seeker,provided they use theyre Intelligence to Understand it :)
October 26, 2010 12:49 PM
Ali said...
Finally,Tariq bin Shihab asked: “O Ameer al-Momineen please explain the virtues of an Imam (masoom), Ameer al-Momineen replied:
O Tariq, Imam (as) is the Kalama-t-Allāh [Word of God], Waj'ha-t-Allah [Face of God], Hijaba-t-Allah [Veil of God], Nūru-Allah [Light of God], Āya-t-Allah [Sign of God]
Nabi Dawud(a.s)(the prophet david)could Speak with the birds,Nabi Sulayman(a.s)(solomon)could Talk with the birds,a Female ant,a hoopoe and Enslave the Devils among the Jinn,and Isa(a.s)could Create a Bird with his won Two Hands by Breatjhign life ijn it(this is Mentioned in sura al-Ma'ida and the Infancy gospel of St.Thomas(a Lost gospel found Recently in egypt)as wella s mentioend by a Jewish Rabbi at The time of Isa(Alayhi As-salam)but to you ali has no supernatural powers bi'Ithnillah?
October 26, 2010 1:04 PM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
cocnerning Al-
thaqalayn ,in the eys of many people,and i can see their reasoning,it is a Hadith used to prove Love for the prophet's Family,but not a political Succession.
the sunni's do not interpret it as such.and i can quote their view on it.
futhermore,i shwoed you,By your own Reasoning,that your imams Are not Ahl ul-Bayt,because Ahl ul-bayt ahs certain Attributtes .i.e. being Perfectly purified,no rijs can come to them(meaning both in Wudhu and ghusl etc)
they are Ahl al-dhikr,Rasikhuna Fi'l ilm etc,but your imams are not this.therefore your imams are Sada but not Ahl ul-Bayt.
my Explanation is quiet simple Wallah!
toelarn someyhing shows ignorance,the mnroe knwoedge you attain,the more ignorant you ebcome,because knowledge is limitless,therefore they cant be Rasikhuna fi'l ilm,or Ulama,thats why as i quopted in the Hadith,Imam Abu abdullah Said:''Fa Na7nu al-Ulama''(we are the One with ilm(ui.e. Scholars)''
but our imams had endless knowledge directly from Allah(Ilm al-Ladunni)
ismaili.net/histoire/history03/history384.html -
evans-experientialism.freewebspace.com/jafar_al_sadiq.htm -
the proof is their inventions,and scientific knowledge.
see the links.
before saying anything !
turning the question over,Who is your imam?can i speak to him?if not why do you claim to follow Ahl Ul-bayt(a.s),and what happened to all those Zaydi's since 1969?
:)
October 26, 2010 1:15 PM
zabarah said...
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
go to sadah and you find sidi badr aldeen alhouthi. he has been strugling since.
and imam majd aldeen almoyadee before him who has just died.
we can have two imams at the same time. and yes they are calling for the same thing.
October 26, 2010 2:04 PM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
Brother Zabarah,i than you for your Scholarluy discussion,and i am Impressed by Zaydi's,except for a few,ive ever experienced comments full of emotion from them,just Clear Academica,and i Admire that :)
I shall Try to answer your statements Insha'Allah( Jala Jalalahu)
YOU SAID:
''''if you are accusing us of nepotism which is what you are doing yourself. you are saying monarchy is better. these are the Imams what ever they may do?????at least in Zaidies if an Imam is not righteous then he must be changed.
''MY ANSWER:im sorry ,the criteria of a rightfull imamate is Ismah,If That Imamate happens to be a Monarchy,then it is still a rightfull imamate,because they are appointed by Allah(SWT),and Have Ismah.
Also Dawood(a.s)And sulayman(a.s) Had Whats known as a Kingship.
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
فَهَزَمُوهُمْ بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ وَقَتَلَ دَاوُودُ جَالُوتَ وَآتَاهُ اللَّهُ الْمُلْكَ وَالْحِكْمَةَ وَعَلَّمَه ُُ مِمَّا يَشَاءُ وَلَوْلاَ دَفْعُ اللَّهِ النَّاسَ بَعْضَهُمْ بِبَعْض ٍ لَفَسَدَتِ الأَرْضُ وَلَكِنَّ اللَّهَ ذُو فَضْلٍ عَلَى الْعَالَمِينَ
So they routed them by Allāh's Leave and Dawûd killed Jalût , and Allāh gave him the kingdom and Al Hikmah , and taught him of that which He willed. And if Allāh did not check one set of people by means of another, the earth would indeed be full of mischief. But Allāh is full of Bounty to the 'Alamīn . (Al-Baqarah 2:251)
The Qu'ran states ''Wa waritha sulaymani Dawood''Fatima al-Zahra(SWS)Used this Verse as proof Agaisnt the Usurpers!
The difference is Allah Said He made Dawood a Khalifah in the Earth,and thus his Kingship was Legitimate.
Nepotism would be :
two people have the same Attributtes,i.e. those Attributtes you mentioned in the quran for the Imams(One of them is Ismah and Nass!),But you Choose the Sayyid above the non-Sayyid SIMPLY BECAUSE OF HIS LINEAGE.
and that is what zaydi's Are doing Vis-a-Vis other people who claim the imamate!
also imamate doesnt have to neccasserily Father to son,as is the Case Between Hasan and husayn.the difference is they were appointed by allah,had the will(Wasayah)Sword,shield,authentic manuscript of the quran(Kitab al-Quran Al-Thabit),and Ismah wich is the basis for the imamate According to The Hadith of al-Baqir in Da'a''im al-Islam.
he also mentions he must be the oldest son,however Qadhi Nu'man Explains this is a allusion to Something Else,and the Hadith could have been possibly Ommitted,or the Narrators did not narrate it completely,or the Imam was Satisfied with saying just that,as it is a allusion to the Waliy Allah(Swt).
i think it refers to Imam Isma'il(a.s),in any case as Qadhi nu'man explains,at face value the hadith seems the imam must be the eldest son of the Previous imam,but in reality this is only for a Certain case(probably imam Isma''il ibn Jafar Al-sadiq).
October 27, 2010 4:05 AM
Anonymous said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
''also, you are conflicting your self. You said that you call to your Imam. but earlier you said you didnt and that you only grow by marriage. ?????
''
what?plz reference that.that doesnt even make sence!
''In yemen we dont have influence. On the contrary we are persecuted! Ismalies have influence and money and they give big presents to the president. Zaidies are hated by all rulers and everybody knows that! which is odd that you blame zaidies ismailies don't admit to be ismailies???
Zaidies fight only the tyrants and the oppressors to put allahs command above them. they live in harmony with other groups and call them the peaceful way.
''
'
Those Isma'ilis who support the Yemeni Government are the Dawoodi bohra Jama'at.Their Da''i lives in India,Ours lives in Najran.ONLY A SMALL MINORITY of Yemeni Isma'ilis(maybe 60,000)Are Dawoodi bohra Jama''at and even many of them are Leaving because in 3 days,
the dawoodi bohra Da''i wants them to:
1.Stop growing the leaf called Qat
2.Wear Indian Clothes,i.e. a White Outfit ,and a Golden Taqiyah!
3.To put the name''bohra''on all their shops
4.To Take on Indian culture,speak a mix of gujurati and arabic called Lisan Al-Dawa'at,Send their children to India,and Eat Indian Food at the Thaal.
the Na'ib of this Dawoodi bohra Da''i warned him,the yemenis are very close their their culture and will not adopt indian Culture,but this Da''i was Arrogant hearted,so he fired this Na''ib,and now many Dawoodi Bohra Jama''at Families are leaving this Orginization!
Sulaymani's on the other hand belong to a different Jama''at,we both belong to the Tayyibi School,but follow different Da'is,we have different history,and the isma'ili sulaymaniyah are most of Arab Isma'ilis,and in Saudi Arabia,and in Yemen(Manakha,Haraz),they are not political and have nothing to do with the Yemeni government!
The Dawoodi Bohra Da´´i is very Corrupt and yes he Bribes leaders!
October 27, 2010 4:13 AM
Anonymous said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
George W.bush sent their Da'i a letter of congragulation!he is openly Welcome by the Sa''udi government!
here is Free-mason Kafir enemy of allah Prince charles,prince of Wales charles meeting the Dawoodi Bohras'!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/royalty/4514334/Prince-Charles-and-Camilla-visit-the-Dawoodi-Bohra-Muslim-mosque-in-Northolt-north-London.html
Try and compare this to Our Da'i who is Under House Arrest!
here is Information about their Jama'ah and Tayyibi Beleifs: :en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawoodi_Bohra -
Here is a Pic of their Da''i :en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawoodi_Bohra -
Compare this with our Da''i and Sulaymaniyah :
www.buzzle.com/.../freedom-and -respect-for-the-rights-of-the -tyrannized-ismailis-of-najran -saudi-arabia.html -
Here is the human rights Watch Report :http://www.hrw.org/en/node/751 97/section/7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =-yHkKr8WaR8 T''''Najran: History,Pride and Great people '' .
http://www.youtube.com/watch? v=ZIoeCVaE1Lc Al-Aan Palace ( Makrami Palace)
Why Wahabi make lying,cheating videos agaisnt us if we support their regime?
:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjNkJgVV9Nc
جرائم الشيعة الاسماعيلية2/2
this video,like most things Wahabi, lie,because shaykh Makrami(R.A)Only make peace between the different Tribes in the Region of Najran
See this(if you read arabic) :
http://www.okhdood.com/?act=artc&id=1563 دعم أمير المنطقة وشفاعة المكرمي ترسخ الصلح بين آل قريشة و آل سنان ...
or this forum where wahabi says we are kafir!
www.dd-sunnah.net/forum/showthread.php?t=84350 -
also see this Article on how the Saudis are trying to releashe a Campaign to attack the fatimids,and arab hsitorians admit all bad stuff about the fatimids is False!
http://www.okhdood.com/?act=artc&id=5913
Arab historian admits Saudi propoganda is False
http://www.okhdood.com/?act=artc&id=1445
because mu'ammar qaddafi says fatimid state nshoudl eb revived:
(english narticles)
themoornextdoor.wordpress.com/.../qaddafi-the-fatimid/ -
http://www.yanabi.com/forum/PrintTopic194669.aspx
Libyan Leader Mu'ammar Qadhafi: All North Africa Is Shiite
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4iv08JOwCk
Qadhafi: Leadership is for AhlulBayt - North Africa is Shia
so you see we do not support any wahabis,or their governments,may allah curse them,and may allah curse all those who support them!
wahabis are kufaar,and that is Evident!
October 27, 2010 4:58 AM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
''''''All you gave me from the quran are attributes not names. This tells us that to know who to follow depends on their attributes.
''Exactly,Thats what ive been Trying to Say!Notice i gave attributtes directly form the Quran:Nass from allah(SWT),Ismah,and from the ahdith the will!
and the FINE POINT:
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
سُنَّةَ اللَّهِ فِي الَّذِينَ خَلَوْا مِنْ قَبْلُ ۖ وَلَنْ تَجِدَ لِسُنَّةِ اللَّهِ تَبْدِيل
you will never find a change in the sunnah of Allah!
''''Imam Zaid has more Ahadith than Albaqir and there is an Ayah to show which Imam is to be followed.
The prophet once looked at Zayd ibn Harithah, cried, and said "The martyr in the sake of Allah, The crucified of my people, The oppressed from my progeny, his name is thus." Then the prophet pointed at Zayd ibn Harithah and said "Come closer to me, your name became more dear to me because it is the same as my dear child (Zaid.)"
''Imam Muhammad al-Baqir narrated: "The Holy Prophet put his sacred hand on Husayn bin Ali's back and said: 'O Husayn, it will not be long until a man will be born among your descendants. He will be called Zaid; he will be killed as a martyr. On the day of resurrection, he and his companions will enter heaven, setting their feet on the necks of the people.'
''
'
MY ANSWER:Masha'allah,Tabarakallah,
Allah Says:
اَ إِكْرَاه ََ فِي الدِّينِ ۖ قَدْ تَبَيَّنَ الرُّشْدُ مِنَ الغَيِّ ۚ فَمَنْ يَكْفُرْ بِالطَّاغُوتِ وَيُؤْمِنْ بِاللَّهِ فَقَدِ اسْتَمْسَكَ بِالْعُرْوَةِ الْوُثْقَى لاَ انفِصَامَ لَهَا ۗ وَاللَّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيم
(Quran surah al-Baqarah 2.256 )Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in God hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And God heareth and knoweth all things.
I love these words:'' قَدْ تَبَيَّنَ الرُّشْدُ مِنَ الغَيِّ ۚ ''
''Truth stands out clear from Error''
in all of your ''proofs''and all the zaydi ''proofs''ive studied on the topic of Zayd's(a.s)Imamate there is ABSOLUTLY No mention of Imamate,it is interesting Zaydi''s quote this when it has no mention of any imamate!
also we respect Zayd(R.A),Qadhi nu''man sees him as a Respectable Narrator,and he Narrates Hadith From him.
We are not like Twelvers who make Takfir on Zayd(R.A),they also Said Imam Isma''il(a.s) was a Adulterer,Alcoholic,and Blashphemer,only to advance the claims of their own False Imams!
this is the offical view of the Twelvers on imam Isma'il(a.s)
it still exists in thier books,and recently some Marja's changed it!
October 27, 2010 5:29 AM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
''Brother: telling westerners you are atheist is not necessary. you should be proud and call them to our religion.
''Thank you for Youu Advice Akhi :)Áfter having lived in a place where people Misunderstand muslims,for 6 Years,i decided not to be open about it,America is a Great place,Americans are very open to Islam,however used to live in a country sidwhere theres no outlook towards different religions,so i decided to be quiet about it,
al-Hamdulillah by the Grace of allah and His Prophet and His Representative,i have managed to Bring 2 people to islam,who said their shahada Recently.(i didnt bring them but they Give me credit for it ,allah Brought Them)
just like the Imams(a.s)Calling people to allah in secret.
you would understand if you were in my position Akhi :)
and Thank you,one day i shall hope to Study with the Zaydi's Insha'Allah(SWT).
لْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ رَبِّ الْعَالَمِين
October 27, 2010 5:36 AM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
I Think its also misleading to Say :''Zaidies fight only the tyrants and the oppressors to put allahs command above them. they live in harmony with other groups and call them the peaceful way.''
The Banu Zurayq,would Disagree you see,they were a Akk Tribe,Sunni's,Everyone knows the Tihama Tribes never Submitted to anyone,and because they were Ahl Ul-Sunna they didnt reconzie the Zaydi imaamte,Well Your Imam ahmed Put them all in his prison and killed almost all of their tribe,when the people from Hudaydah would come to Bab Al-Sana'a they would all be stopped to see how to pronounce a certain word (i think the people from tihama pronounce the ''gh''as ''Q'')and depending on their accents,they would be taken away and killed.
one of your imams also tried to make the Jewish Community Convert To Islam,so when they refused,he deported them to the Tihama,and when it was realized without the Jews,theyre would be no silversmiths,they mkvwed to Sana'a EnMasse.
they Isma'íliyah were also eprsecuted by your Imam,becaus we helped the Ottomans,they were more liberal to our Math-hab,and were Starved out,and forced to move from their homeland in najran to Haraz,and it was because of this the Dawoodi bohra Da'waa had to move to India!Zaydis still beleive that isma'iliyah commit Orgies in the night,and narrate a false story about Ali ibn Fadl(wich was not even a follower of Fatimi imams but later became a Qarmati and was one of our worst enemies!) and some nights of pleasure!this was spread by your imam to demonize isma''ilis.in fact many of the misunderstandings against The Isma'iliyah come from your imams Time!and sufis were otulawed from practicing their religion too!
the real tolerant were the fatimids,and anyone who studies history knows the fatimids were advanced in this regard.
the Ibdhi abandoned theyre Violent eleifs,and are now a tolerant Sect,i think its time Zaydi Intellectuals/A'immah do the Same !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
October 27, 2010 12:56 PM
Zabarah said...
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم,
First I would like to congratulate you on turning two people into Islam. the ultimate truth that has no alternative. May allah reward you paradise.
I will not go into bickering and fighting over what our Imams did and what your Imams did.I can give you things about your history but I choose inshallah not to. I fear that will get us into hurting each other and that is not why we are having this discussions.
I want to address your hadith that you are saying is proof of albagir appointment.
lets look at the hadith:
قول النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم لجابر بن عبد الله الأنصاري: إنك ستعيش حتى ترى رجلا من أولادي اسمه اسمي يبقر العلم بقرا فإذا لقيته فأقره مني السلام فلقيه جابر وأقرأه السلام من رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم، ومات جابر بعد ذلك بقليل.
The prophet mohamad (peace be upon him and his progoney) said to Aljabeer ibn abdullah alansari: You will live until you see a man from my children his name is the same as mine he will break into knowledge and will know it well and when you do tell him my greeting (salam.) And jaber died soon after that.
This hadith is proof that the prophet mohamad was devinly communicated by allah when jaber will die. proof of the prophets message. This hadith shows how knowledgeable Mohammad albageer. but this does not show direct appointment that this man is the Imam that you indicated. we hold Imam mohamad albager in high regard and we say he is an imam of ilm.
but lets look the hadith of Imam Zaid Ibn ALi:
وفي ذلك أن النبي محمد نظر يوماً إلى زيد بن حارثة فبكى وقال: « المقتول في اللّه المصلوب من أمتي المظلوم من أهل بيتي سمي هذا » وأشار إلى زيد بن حارثة، ثم قال: « أدن مني يا زيد زادك اسمك عندي حباً فإنك سمي الحبيب من ولدي (زيد) ».
" The prophet once looked at Zayd ibn Harithah, cried, and said "The martyr in the sake of Allah, The crucified of my people, The oppressed from my progeny, his name is thus." Then the prophet pointed at Zayd ibn Harithah and said "Come closer to me, your name became more dear to me because it is the same as my dear child (Zaid.)"
here it shows how dear Imam Zaid was to the prophet and close to him. showing that Imam Zaid did actually choose the right path. A path of true jehad and salvation.
October 27, 2010 8:56 PM
Zabarah said...
Then read the next hadith
ورُوي عن أبي جعفر محمد بن علي، عن النبي محمد، أنه قال للحسين: « يخرج من صلبك رجل يقال له: زيد، يتخطى هو وأصحابه يوم القيامة رقاب الناس غراً محجلين، يدخلون الجنة أجمعين بغير حساب ».
Imam Muhammad al-Baqir narrated: "The Holy Prophet put his sacred hand on Husayn bin Ali's back and said: 'O Husayn, it will not be long until a man will be born among your descendants. He will be called Zaid; he will be killed as a martyr. On the day of resurrection, he and his companions will enter heaven, setting their feet on the necks of the people.'"
Here the prophet says that Imam Zaid has choosen the right path and this path lead to Jannah.
Then he continues that Imam Zaid and his COMPANIONS. Who has COMPANIONS? An Imam has companions a prophet has companions. Companions follow on the foot steps of their Imam and leader. in this case Imam Zaid. and what Imam Zaid and those who follow him will go to jannah stepping on the necks of the people.
Everybody at the time of imam zaid know of his knowledge and his uniqueness at the time. they even called him friend of the Quran.
Imam Albagir and Imam Jafer Alsadeg Also Attest to that and tell people to follow him.
Everyone knows Imam Zaid Called for his Imam. He was Imam of knowledge and Jehad.
Allah make us from the companions of Imam Zaid. Amen.
Brother Ali, concerning Kabeer there is more than seven and maybe sister zaida can have an article about that. because as I wish I can write lots of replies on your concerns but I will stick to heart of the issue. Imam ali has strugled with his nafs too and that is we he has this high degree.
Concerning allah choosing who will become Imam. you are correct that nothing will happen until allah wishes. ahlul bait can try to grasp knoweldge and thrive for better ummah but if Allah does not permit these people from ahlul bayt he will not give them the ability to reach that level and other he will. and allah rewards on the intention.
like a man wanting to be Dr. a man chooses to be a dr. but if Allah does not permit him to be a dr. he will not be a dr. no matter what he does.
and for all they will punished and rewarded
according to their intention and allah the almighty knows what are in the hearts of men.
My dear Brother Ali, you have many contradictions, if you look back to your previous comments and compare you might recognize them.
October 27, 2010 8:57 PM
Zabarah said...
Sorry typing mistakes I have done
What I wrote
"Everyone knows Imam Zaid Called for his Imam"
what I meant
"Everyone knows Imam Zaid Called for his own Imamite. As in follow him as an Imam"
What I wrote
"
ورُوي عن أبي جعفر محمد بن علي، عن النبي محمد، أنه قال للحسين: « يخرج من صلبك رجل يقال له: زيد، يتخطى هو وأصحابه يوم القيامة رقاب الناس غراً محجلين، يدخلون الجنة أجمعين بغير حساب ».
Imam Muhammad al-Baqir narrated: "The Holy Prophet put his sacred hand on Husayn bin Ali's back and said: 'O Husayn, it will not be long until a man will be born among your descendants. He will be called Zaid; he will be killed as a martyr. On the day of resurrection, he and his companions will enter heaven, setting their feet on the necks of the people.'"
What I meant
"
ورُوي عن أبي جعفر محمد بن علي، عن النبي محمد، أنه قال للحسين: « يخرج من صلبك رجل يقال له: زيد، يتخطى هو وأصحابه يوم القيامة رقاب الناس غراً محجلين، يدخلون الجنة أجمعين بغير حساب ».
Imam Muhammad al-Baqir narrated: "The Holy Prophet put his sacred hand on Husayn bin Ali's back and said: 'O Husayn, it will not be long until a man will be born among your descendants. He will be called Zaid; he will be killed as a martyr. On the day of resurrection, he and all of his companions will enter heaven with out judgement, setting their feet on the necks of the people with great pride.'"
October 27, 2010 9:06 PM
Anonymous said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
Even Though i have Proven that our Imams Did the Jihad,and Called people to themselves:
1.This is not a Neccassery Perequisite for Imamate,According to the Hadiths of Imam Al-Baqir(a.s)
2.the quran says those who Strive in the way of allah are prefered over others,but in the very same ayah defines it not as fighting or combat,but with their'' Wealth and their selves''
3.the quran mentions Nothing about Calling people to Yourself,or rising up in Jihad as a Perequisite For Imamate.
it rather mentions,:the Nass,The Ismah,The knowledge,and the Access to Verses.
4.Hadhrat Luqman,had no Following but his son .
5.As far as Our Knowledge is concerned Hadhrat Nabi Khidhr,did not Call people Towards himself,in Fact he Remained Hidden.Only Musa(a.s)had Access to him.Just As Only Our Da'i has access to the Imam(a.s).
6.Ali did have supernatural powers,you are correct that he admitted how He learned From the Prophet,But Do You know How?The Prophet Put his Hand on His Breast and Revealed all the Hidden knowledge of all Matters to him!and this is in a hadith from ali itself.
As Far as We Are concerned,This Happened Before Ali's Succession to The position of ''''Wasi'''',meaning he was not yet Appointed to the position of Wasi,after his Appointment(Nass)at Ghadeer Khum,He got the Attributtes of the Wasi,however it must be Noted He Was Always Infallible.this is similar to how Muhammad did not Have Access to The angel Gabriel Before His Appointment to the Nubbuwwah At The Cave of Al-hirah,or any prophet for that matter,or any Imam Before his Appointment(nass).
finally why did Allah Say إِنَّا نَحْنُ نُحْيِ الْمَوْتَى وَنَكْتُبُ مَا قَدَّمُوا وَآثَارَهُمْ وَكُلَّ شَيْءٍ أحْصَيْنَاه ُُ فِي إِمَام ٍ مُبِين
Surely We shall resurrect the dead, We are recording all that they are sending ahead and that they are leaving behind. We have recorded everything in an Manifest Imam.[36.12]
(the words are :Inna Nahnu Nuhyi Al-Mawta Wa Naktubu Ma Qaddama Wa 'Atharahum Wa Kulla Shay'in 'Hsaynahu Fī 'Imamin Mubīn)its funny nhwo peop;e translate it as''open eldger''and clear book''
7.The quran makes it Clear 3 shahada'at,but the Zaydis Took it out.Why?i can prove to you the quran mandates 3 shahada's
True Adhan-Ali is The Trustee of allah علياً ولي الل
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZAhxhaPOcg
8.Imam Hussain Had the Skies Cry blood for Him,for 3 days,when he got his Martyrdom,this is recorded by non-muslims in far away places!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On the day of the martyrdom of Husayn the sky rained
blood . . .
See
Thakhaaer al-Uqba pp 144, 145, 150.
Al-Sawaaeq al-Muhriqah pp 116, 192. . . . . .
(on the day Husayn was killed) there was not a stone which was not
lifted but underneath it was found blood . . .
-
Al-Sawaaeq al-Muhriqah pp 116, 192.
Tathkirat-ul-Khawaas p 284,
all sunni sources)
The chroniclers in the reference such as the above record theses
reports from people who were in Medina, Karbala, Kufa, Damascus,
(Jerusalem)
In the Year of the battle of karbala ,Christian Monks in Britain Have amazingly Recorded:
685 A.D. In this year in Britain it rained blood, and milk and butter
were turned into blood.
''''The above is recorded in:
The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle,
Translated, edited by G. N. Garmonsway,
Professor of English,
Kings College, London
ISBN 0-460-87038-6I
9.Ali also had a similar miracle Happen,When he Was born in The Ka'aba :
Imam Ali A.S. and the Holy Kaa'ba-an ongoing miracle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B-vrH_JPs4
October 28, 2010 4:30 AM
Anonymous said...
10.what is up with qiyas?is this a bida?i dont want to know wether you consider it good or bad.if it is a bida,then Your imams Are in The Fire Because Allah's Messenger Cursed The Innovattor,Now how can your the majority of Your Imams Have Represented The Prophet when they were Innovattors?Plz Answer!!!!!!!!!!!!!
11.what about Ijtihad?Did the prophet not Say:''My Quran and Ahl Ul-Bayt'',and furthermore these manmade techniques are not a lawfull source to determine what is Religion?(you can also say the Calender of our Da'i Al-Kirmani was a Bida,But this was based on the quran,and how the quran tells us to mandate the months,and how the Quran tells us to measure the Days namely FIXED:
(2.184)أَيَّاما ً مَعْدُودَات ٍ ۚ فَمَنْ كَانَ مِنْكُمْ مَرِيضاً أَوْ عَلَى سَفَر ٍ فَعِدَّة ٌ مِنْ أَيَّامٍ أُخَرَ ۚ وَعَلَى الَّذِينَ يُطِيقُونَه ُُ فِدْيَة ٌ طَعَامُ مِسْكِين ٍ ۖ فَمَنْ تَطَوَّعَ خَيْرا ً فَهُوَ خَيْر ٌ لَه ُُ ۚ وَأَنْ تَصُومُوا خَيْر ٌ لَكُمْ ۖ إِنْ كُنتُمْ تَعْلَمُونَ
)
the prophet said we would follow the Jews and christians even if they were to go in a lizard hole,now the Jews also had ijtihad and their Rabbis corrupted their deen by this way!theyre books of ijtihad are called Mishnah,and they contain the Fatawa (legal decrees)of the Rabbis,and not any proof from torah or the oral tradition!
12.Sayyed al-houthi is not reconized by most Zaydis as a Imam,in fact many Zaydi Families have Denounced him.for creating Trouble.and since 1969,there was no imam of yours,only since 2004,did you have a eligible candidate for the Imamate.What Happened to all Those Zaydis From then until Now,As the Messenger of Allah Stated:''He Who dies without Reconizing the imam of his Time,Dies the Death of Jahiliyah''????????????
answer all My Questions One By One
October 28, 2010 4:35 AM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
i apprecciatte you discussing with me,but when you make a Contradiction i point it out,when i make a ontradiction,you dont point it out.point it out if your Truth full :)
cocnerning Zayd(R.A),i really dont know much about him,i know the opinions of sunni scholars was he performed Taqiyah when saying to not curse the Usurpers(l.a),as a Maslaha(diplomacy) to Quell fitna and Unite The ammah(sunnis).
the hadiths of him and his martyrdom,i dont know wether we isma'ilis have them or not,or if theyre authentic,i have only the Second volume of the English translation of the Da'a'im al-islam wich is only Fiqh,and i need the first that deals with Aqidah,and Qadhi nu'man also has a book on history wich contains this Information.
to know such issues and the Isma'ili stance on it i need to purchase The books Written By Qadhi nu'man such as:Kitab iftitah al-da‘wa wa-ibtida’ al-dawla ,Ikhtilaf usul al-madhahib(diferences between Schools of Law) ,kitab al-majalis wa’l-musayarat(The Book of Sessions and Excursions),Kitab al-himma fi adab atba‘ al-a’imma .
all in arabic.and i dont speak fluent arabic.
in any case,Those Hadiths Zaydiyah have in Zaid,do not mention any Imamate,Secondly Zayd believed in Qiyas,wich is Bida,allah overlooks peoples sins,the hadith of al-Baqir i am refering to is in Da'a'im al-Islam,Ali on his Last Breath mentions the appointment of al-Baqir:
October 28, 2010 4:44 AM
Ali said...
This post has been removed by the author.
October 28, 2010 4:49 AM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
Hadith lawh: Sheikh Saduq states in his book Amali (page 353) - Imam Jafer Sadiq (pbuh) narrates that one day Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) said to Jabir bin Abdullah Ansari "you will stay alive until you meet my son Mohammad bin Ali bin Hosein bin Ali bin Abi Talib (pbuh)who is mentioned in the Torah as baqir. Give him my salutation (salam) when you meet him". One day when Jabir visited Imam Zain-ul-Abideen (pbuh), he saw the young boy sitting next to the Imam (pbuh). He addressed the young boy and asked him to come closer and show his back. Then he proclaimed that by God, that young boy had the features and traits of the Prophet Mohammad (pbuh). Then he asked Imam Sajjad (pbuh) who the young boy was and Imam (pbuh) replied that he was his son and the successor to the Imamate and his name was Mohammad baqir (pbuh). Hearing this, Jabir rose up and kissed the young Imam and said "Son of Prophet (pbuh), may I be taken ransom for you, accept the salutation (salam) of Prophet (pbuh). He asked me to convey it to you". Imam Jafer Sadiq (pbuh) states that his father burst into tears on hearing this and said "Jabir my salutation to my grand father until this sky and earth survives. You conveyed the salam of my grandfather to me so I convey my salam to you as well".
secondly there are also ahadith of the ''matryrdom of umar''and ''the martyrdom of uthman''according to sunnis propheised by the Messenger
however since we know they were kiled with just cause this contradicts these hadiths,or theyre INTERPRETATIONS anyway
same with zayd,the imamate is by nass,it has ismah,it has ilm,and zayd was not appointed by nass,he had no weapon or sheild,imam baqir had the weapon and sheild.
so we cannot accept your interpretation,not to mention the hadiths contain NO mention,explicit or implicit of a imamate for Zayd Ibn ali!
October 28, 2010 4:54 AM
Ali said...
(Kitab Da'a''im al-islam Kitab Al-Wasaya Chp 14 Book of the Pillars of Islam book of wills 342-350 english translation)
Also the Twelvers narrate a hadith about the Killing of umar:"Hudhayfah ibn al-Yaman narrates: Once on the 9th of Rabi' al-awwal I went to Rasulullah. I saw Ameerul Mu'mineen Ali Murtaza, Imam Hasan and Imam Husain also there. All were busy eating. Rasulullah smiling in great happiness said to Hasan and Husain: 'Sons, today is the day on which Allah will destroy your enemy and the enemy of your grandfather, and Allah will accept the curse of your mother (Fatimah). Eat sons, eat! Today is the day that Allah accepts the deeds of your Shia (partisans), and beloved. Eat sons, eat! Today is the day when the power of your enemy and the enemy of your grandfather will be broken and annihilated in the dust. Eat sons, eat! Today is the day when Fir'on (i.e. the Pharaoh or tyrant) to my Ahl al-Bayt, the one who will oppress and persecute them and who will usurp their rights, will be destroyed. Hudhayfah said: I exclaimed: 'O Rasulullah! Will there be such an evil person in your Ummah, who will perpetrate such villainy?' Rasulullah replied: 'O Hudhayfah! Among the munafiqs (hypocrites) there will be one idol who will be the leader of the group of munafiqeen. He will carry in his hand the whip of cruelty and injustice; he will prevent people from the Path of truth; he will alter the Qur'an; he will change my Sunnah and my ways; he will oppress my Wasi (Appointee) Ali bin Abi Talib and he will deprive my daughter, Fatimah of her rights. My daughter will then curse him. Allah Ta'ala will accept her la'nat (curse) and prayers.' Hudhayfah then said: 'O Rasulullah! Why do you not supplicate to Allah to destroy this Fir'on and oppressor in your very lifetime?' Rasulullah replied: 'O Hudhayfah! I do not regard it proper to interfere in the decisions of Allah Ta'ala... But, I have requested Allah Ta'ala to grant excellence and superiority to that day when that oppressor and Fir'on is dispatched to Jahannum (i.e. when he is destroyed). That day should be decreed superior to all other days so that honoring of that day becomes a Sunnah for my Shiane Ahle Bait (i.e. partisans of my family). Allah Ta'ala then sent this Wahi (revelation): 'It has already been decreed in My Eternal Knowledge that the usurping Munafiqs will persecute you and your family. They will inflict many hardships on you and your family. O Muhammad! Ali has been awarded your rank because of these (impending) hardships which will be perpetrated on him by the usurper of his rights and the Fir'on of this Ummah. I have commanded the angels of the 7 heavens to rejoice and celebrate Eid [disambiguation needed] on the day he (i.e. Umar) is killed - this is for the sake of the partisans and lovers of the Ahle Bait. I have commanded the recording Angels to cease recording the sins of My servants for 3 days from that day. This is in honor of that day (on which Umar will be murdered). O Muhammad! Three days grace and permission in general to commit sins have been given in your honor and in honor of your appointee (Ali) ... Every year on this day, will I free from Jahannam (Hell) thousands of your Shias.'
October 28, 2010 5:05 AM
Ali said...
Hudhayfah says: 'After Rasulullah said this, he arose and left the room and went to the house of Umm Salamah. After having heard this talk of Rasulullah I was convinced of Umar's kufr. There remained no doubt in this. Finally, after the demise of Rasulullah, I witnessed the fitnah [disambiguation needed] which he (Umar) created. He exhibited the kufr which was concealed in him. He reneged from Islam and usurped the Imamate [disambiguation needed] and Khilafat. To achieve this end he adopted the most shameless methods. He altered the Qur'an and burnt the holy house of Rasulullah. He pleased the Jews, Christians and the Magians and displeased Fatimah and the entire Ahle Bait, and he conspired to have Ameerul Mu'mineen (i.e. Ali) murdered. He made haram (forbidden) what Allah had made halal (permissible) and legalized what Allah had made unlawful. He slammed the door against the face and stomach of Fatimah. Hudhayfah then said: 'Finally Allah Ta'ala accepted the curses of His Holy Nabi (i.e. Prophet Muhammad) and his daughter in regard to this Munafiq (i.e. Umar) and had him killed at the hands, of his killer (Abu-Lu'lu'ah). May there be the Rahmat (Mercy) of Allah on his (Umar's) killer (i.e. Abu-Lu'lu'ah)
October 28, 2010 5:07 AM
Anonymous said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
i can also show many such hadiths.
YOU SAID:
''
ورُوي عن أبي جعفر محمد بن علي، عن النبي محمد، أنه قال للحسين: « يخرج من صلبك رجل يقال له: زيد، يتخطى هو وأصحابه يوم القيامة رقاب الناس غراً محجلين، يدخلون الجنة أجمعين بغير حساب ».
Imam Muhammad al-Baqir narrated: "The Holy Prophet put his sacred hand on Husayn bin Ali's back and said: 'O Husayn, it will not be long until a man will be born among your descendants. He will be called Zaid; he will be killed as a martyr. On the day of resurrection, he and his companions will enter heaven, setting their feet on the necks of the people.'"
What I meant
"
ورُوي عن أبي جعفر محمد بن علي، عن النبي محمد، أنه قال للحسين: « يخرج من صلبك رجل يقال له: زيد، يتخطى هو وأصحابه يوم القيامة رقاب الناس غراً محجلين، يدخلون الجنة أجمعين بغير حساب ».
Imam Muhammad al-Baqir narrated: "The Holy Prophet put his sacred hand on Husayn bin Ali's back and said: 'O Husayn, it will not be long until a man will be born among your descendants. He will be called Zaid; he will be killed as a martyr. On the day of resurrection, he and all of his companions will enter heaven with out judgement, setting their feet on the necks of the people with great pride.'"
MY ANSWER:
Brother,after the revolt of zayd,his companions split up in 6 sects,
1.Abu'l Jarud Ziyad ibn Abi Ziyad
2.Sulayman ibn Jarir
3.Kathir an-Nawa Al-Abtar
4.Abu Nu'aym al-Fadl ibn al-Dukayn
5.Abd al-Samad his sect the khalafiyyah beelived ilm was nspirational not ''earned''they believed the mahdi would riase from Abd al-samad's Line.they beelived the number 5 was holy,and thus the name ''5ers ''was missappaled to zaydis.
6.Khashabbiyah,they believed a imam was legitmate no matter what he did ,and that if 2 ''imams'' fight you should not take any side!
(secondly among his companions were Abdullah al-Aflah(R.A)and Musa al-Kadhim(a.s)and yes they are in the highest level of paradise!)
and all had different religions!itis the sulaymaniyah wich survives today,but even the Rassiya were jarudiyah.i think Zayd's followers Ascribed imamah to him after his Shahada!i didnt witness it.and i have no proofs he claimed imamate,in any case it would not matter anyway.secondly Imam Al-mahdi bi'llah was also Prophisied by the Prophet(SWS),but when putting forward proof of Fatimi Imamate i use Qu'ran and not the traditions of my Math-hab!
Ali al-sulayhi whos dynasty would advance the Tayyibi cause,was also Predicted by al-imam Jafar Al-Sadiq(a.s),ali al-sulayhi was converted becaue a Da'i informed him how he was predicted to become a Great ruler in the Way of Allah-subhanahu Wa Ta'ala-in arostotliean treatise he had.
i can also bring such hadiths for anyone i want to!the fact is we have been given The Criterion(Al-furqan)to distinguish between right and wrong,and im Afraid the Isma'ili imamah is well proven from the Quran!
if not answer my questions.
instead of repeating the same hadith over and over again.
لْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ رَبِّ الْعَالَمِين
October 28, 2010 5:28 AM
Anonymous said...
Above all, as a member of the da`wa, acting directly under the guidance of the Imam of
the time, it was al-Kirmani’s job to teach. He and his contemporary da`is were working
towards educating the community in issues of intellectual importance. “By [al-
Kirmani’s] efforts, a considerable degree of unity prevailed and the solidarity of the
da`wa was restored.” The Tayyibi da`i Idris says of him:
“He [al-Kirmani] came as an abundant rainfall to the pasture after its being
barren. By his explanation the black and gloomy darkness vanished and by his
clear knowledge and light of guidance the superiority of the Imams became
evident.”
October 28, 2010 6:30 AM
Anonymous said...
al-Kirmani was the hujjat al-
Iraqayn so-called for his Influence in Iraq and Iran.Wrote many works such as :
1.Rahat al-Aql,
2. al-Masabih fi lthbat al-Imama
3. Ma'asim al-Huda wa al-isaba fi Tafdil Ali Ala al-Sahaba
4. Tanbih al-Hadi wa al-Mustahdi
5. al-Aqwal al-Dahabiyya
6. Ma'atim al-Din
7. al-Riyad
8. Fasi al-Khitab
9. A collection of 11 Risalas
10 al-Risala alDurriya.
11. Risalat al-Nazm
12. al-Risala al-Radiya
13. al-Mudia
14. al-Lazima
15. al-Rawda fi al-Azal
16. al-Zahira
17. al-Hawiya
18. Mabasim al-Bisharat
19. al-Wa'iza
20. al-Kafiya
21. Khaza'in al-Adilia
22. al-Fihrist
23. al-Ma'ad
24. al-Maqadir wa al-Hada'iq.
25. Taj a]-Uqui
26. Maydan al-Aql
27. Alim al-Din
28. al-Layliyya
29. al-Nafdh wa al-lizam
30. lklil al-Nafs
31. al-Maqayis
32. al-Majaiis al-baghdadiya wa al-Basriyya
33. al-Shi'ra
34. al-Ta'wa Lyyia
35. al - Mufawaz
36. al-Ma'arii.
i shall give a explanation of the theology of kirmani especially how it is very controversial.
stay tuned
-ali
October 28, 2010 6:39 AM
Anonymous said...
1. The conveyer of the Message, or the Proclaimer (an-natiq). His function is to procalim the revelation (al-tanzil). He corresponds to the First Intellect and to the sphere of spheres.
2. The Foundation (al-asas). He is so called because he is the foundation of the esoteric interpretation of the revelation (at-tawil). This interpretation reveals the inner knowledge of the revelation (ilm al-batin) which is the true meaning of the divine Message. He corresponds to the Second Intellect, i.e the Inclusive Soul, and to the spshere of the fixed stars.
3. The Imam. His function is to carry on this inner knowledge and guide the Community along its line. He corresponds to the Third Intellect and to the sphere of Saturn." etc
Allah Says in surah zukhruf ayah 28:
وَجَعَلَهَا كَلِمَة ً بَاقِيَة ً فِي عَقِبِه ِِ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَرْجِعُونَ
"And He made it a word enduring among His posterity.
and allah Says in surah nisa 124:
يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ قَدْ جَاءَكُمْ بُرْهَان ٌ مِنْ رَبِّكُمْ وَأَنزَلْنَا إِلَيْكُمْ نُورا ً مُبِينا
O men, a proof has now come to you from your Lord;We have sent down to you a manifest light
his Will or Word of God, which Ahmad Hamid al-Din al-Kirmani calls the First Intellect (al-aql al-awwal), and the First Existent (al-mawjud al-awwal) is the First Cause of existence; thus it necessarily exists. Al-Kirmani says :
( Rahat al-aql p.59. )
"If the existence of the first is not established, the second would not exist. And if the existence of the second is not established, the third would not exist. Therefore, the second and third only exist by reason of the existence of what is first to them, and a cause to their existence. The existence of the third, the fourth and other existing beings is, therefore, a proof for the existence of a first to them, and a cause without which nothing would exist. By the existence of these, the existence of a first principle is proven, from which existence other existing beings resulted. This first principle we call the First Intellect or the First Existent beings resulted. This first principle we call the first Intellect or the First Existent whose existence is not by itself but rather by its creation by the Transcendent, may He be praised."
al-Kirmani says:
(rahat al-aql p.71)
(this First Intellect came into existence by virtue of the existence of God. Being God's Will, this First Intellect came into existence by God's Power. "For Intellect", as al-Kirmani says "is that being which was issued into existence out of the Power from which Origination resulted. This origination is the reality of the Intellect and its essence"
and he also says the act of ibda is not separate from al-mubdi
He Says:
(Rahat al-aql p.73)
"Since by saying Origination we imply that it is one thing, and by that which was originated we imply that it is two things, namely Origination and that which became originated by the act of Origination, for the act is one thing and the result of the act is another thing; and since it is absurd that anything could be prior to Origination or else Origination would become like matter which receives it, and this would lead to an existence which is not issued out of the Transcendental Quiddity, may He be praised, and consequently, to an existence out of which the existence of both would be issued; and this is absurd; (therefore) the Originator (the source of Origination) is both the Originated and the Origination."
October 28, 2010 7:04 AM
Anonymous said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
In contemplating himself, the First Originated Being knew that he was the Originator's Activity, the First Being. By this knowledge of himself, says al-Kirmani, a light illuminated and radiated from him as a result of the feeling happiness (ightibat) he had when he contemplated himself. This light that radiated from him is what the Ismailis call the First Emanating Being (al-munba'ith al-awwal). It is the first being that emanated from the First Intellect. Consequently, it is second in existence to the First Intellect, i.e. the First Originated Being (al-mubda al-awwal).Hence it is called the Second Intellect (al-aql ath-thani). it is alos caled the ''universal soul''(al-Nafs al-Kulliya)
Now, from the First Intellect and the Second emanated a Third Intellect. This Third intellect started to question the ontological anteriority of the First and Second Intellects. Was he not equal to them? Did he not even precede them? This led him to refuse to recognize their precedence and to respond to their call. Consequently he came to a standstill. He fell in a state of stupor which resulted in separating the Third Intellect from the rest of the Intelligible World. This distance is what is meant by time. However the Third Intellect was able to free himself from his stupor. But he found out that seven other Intellects had emanated during this state of stupor. He was delayed (takhallafa). Instead of being the Third he became now the Tenth Intellect.
These ten Intellects are in charge of the physical world (alam al-jism). The First Intellect is in charge of the sphere of spheres (falak al-aflak), the Second of the sphere of the fixed stars, the Third of the sphere of Saturn, the Fourth of that of Jupiter, the Fifth of that of Mars, the Sixth of that of the sun, the Seventh of that of Venus, the Eighth of that of Mercury, the ninth of that of the moon, and the Tenth, originally the Third Intellect, is in charge of the sub-lunary world. We must remember, however, that each Intellect is inclusive (kulli) of all the inferior ones, while each of the inferior ones is included (juz'i) in the superior ones.25
The Tenth Intellect, who has fallen down from being the Third to being the Tenth, corresponds in the sub-lunary world, i.e. the earth, of which he is in charge, to his human homologue Adam, who is said to have fallen from paradise. That is why the Ismai'ilis call him the Spiritual Adam (Adam ar-ruhani), in contrast to the "terrestrial" Adam.
(see Rahat al-aql, pp.97-98 for the references to this doctrine)
October 28, 2010 7:09 AM
Anonymous said...
Most of the Isma'ili savants of the Fatimid period consider this "terrestrial" Adam to be both the epiphanic form (mazhar) and the veil of the Spiritual Adam, i.e. the Third Intellect who became the Tenth. In the World of Religion (alam ad-din), he is the Imam. In his book Rahat al-aql al-Kirmani outlines the esoteric hierarchy of the World of Religion in which the "terrestrial" Adam holds the rank of Imam. This World of Religion consists of ten rank-holders, each corresponding respectively to one of the ten Intellects of the Intelligible World. These are: 1. the Proclaimer (an-natiq); his function is to proclaim the revelation (at-tanzil); 2. the Foundation (al-asas); his function is to interpret the revelation (at-ta'wil); he is so called because he is the foundation of the inward knowledge (ilm al-batin); 3. the Imam; he carries on this inward knowledge and leads the community; 4. the Gate (al-bab); he decides the meaning of the discourse (fasl al-khitab), i.e. he is a head teacher in the da'wa; 5. the Proof (al-hujja); he supervises the missionaries and reveals the exegesis; 6. the Missionary of the Message (da'i al-balagh); he is in charge of dialectical and philosophical teaching; 7. the Missionary General (ad-da'i al-mutlaq); he teaches the inner meaning of the doctrine; 8. the Limited Missionary (ad-da'i al-mahdud); he teaches the practical ritual services and directs the inferior functionaries; 9. the Licencee-General (al-madhun al-mutlaq); he takes the oath and the covenant (al-ahd wal mithaq) from the proselytes and teaches the preliminaries for higher knowledge (adab ad-din); 10. the Limited Licencee (al-ma'dhun al-mahdud); he is in charge of preaching the doctrine by posing questions and arguments (mukasara) in order to attract the proselytes. Thus, for al-Kirmani and other Isma'ili doctors of the Fatimid period such as as-Sijistani, the Natiq, Asas and Imam correspond respectively to their celestial archetypes: the First, Second and Third Intellects.
October 28, 2010 7:14 AM
Anonymous said...
so in simple words,the Imam is the word of God,
Adam was the first to be entrusted with that Word or Will, i.e. with the Imamate. In other words, he was willed by God to be Imam. He, in his turn, entrusted this Will or Word (the activity of the Imam) to his son, and so on. Every Imam would, in his turn, express this Will, and then entrust it to his successor, and thus this Will (the Imamate) would settle (istaqarra) and dwell (aqama) in the following Imam, and so on. Thus, the person of the Imam becomes the mustaqarr of God's Will or Word, i.e. the place in which God's Word is settled (istaqarra), as well as its muqam, i.e. the place in which God's Word dwells (aqama).
An-Nasafi, another Isma'ili da'i says in his book Kitab al-mahsul:"The Imam is the end of Existence (ghayat al-wujud)... His essence is divine, and his life is eternal... He is the end of all ends and the creator of creation."
the Famouis Yemeni Da'i of the Tayyibi community , Idris Imadudeen mention a hadith of Jabir ibn abdullah al-ansar(R.A) in Zahr al-Ma'an:I was sitting once in the presence of the Commander of the Faithful 'Ali ibn Abi Talib, Peace be on him, when there entered Salman and Jundub (Abu Dharr al-Ghifari), may God be satisfied with them. They greeted and sat down. Ali said, 'You are welcome, you, who both are faithful (wali) and sincere, and who promised their God to remain so. Verily this is necessary for every faithful (mu'min), for no one will accomplish his faith until he recognizes me really in my Luminous Substance. If he only knows me in this way, his heart will be tested by God as to the strength of his faith, and he will be content; thus he will become one knowing and seeing. The one who fails is he who doubts and is obsessed by doubts.'''
The passage goes on until Ali says:
"I have destroyed the earlier generations (al-qurun al-ula). I am the Great News (an-naba' al-azim) about which they were at variance. I am the Will of God, 'He makes the spirit (ruh) from His will descend upon any of His servants to whom He pleases to send it' (Sura XL 15)."
Then he said:
"O Salman and Jundub, verily our dead never die, and those amongst us who are killed are not killed in reality. We have not begotten and have not been begotten."
in another place he said:
"O, Salman and Jundub, I bring humanity to life and make them die, I create them, and nourish them... And the Rightful Imams from my progeny are acting in the same way, because all of us are one and the same imams manifested at all times... But with all this, we eat and drink, ... in the market place and do what we will, by the will of God, our Lord."
October 28, 2010 7:24 AM
Anonymous said...
Al-Da'i shirazi said concerning Imam mustansir in his sha'ar(poetry):
The Imam al-Mustansir, the Purity, the Lord,
"Is an evidence of God among mankind."
the Famouis yemeni Da''i of al-Mahdi ,Jafar ibn Mansur al-Yaman in his book Sar'ir an-Nutaqa, says: "It is related that Abu Dharr said, 'I have heard the commander of the Faith say: I am the face of God that He mentioned in His saying 'Wither so ever you turn, there is the face of God.' (Sura 11, 109).
Al-Da'i al-shirazi says about imam mustansir(Alayhi al-salam):"Your face is the Luminous face of God,
And your light is as a veil to His light."
Ibn Hani Says About imam al-mu'izz(alayhi al-salam)
:It is what you wish, not what fate wishes,
"Rule! You are the One, the Almighty."
Al-Imam al-Muizz in his letter to al-Hassan ibn Ahmad al-Qarmati wrote: "We are the beginning of Thought and the end of Action.''
Imam al-hakim says in his first Khutba in Masjid Al-qahira on the ascension of his imamate:"O'people, surely Allah has made us superior by the word of Imaamat. He has eternalized it in us, so that it may last until the day of doom. The one of us receives it from the other and the son inherits it from the father. This is the bounty of Allah, He gives it to whomever He wishes, and God is of bounty abounding."
October 28, 2010 7:43 AM
Anonymous said...
Imam El- Mu’izz (as) then explained Sayedna Qadhi al-nu''man(R.A) that, in true sense, intellect is the one which knows what is right and wrong and strips apart the truth from falsehood. Gaining intellect is treading on the path of Deen and Shari’at of Allaah with the guidance and the knowledge of Hujjatullaah present near you and indulging your body and soul in doing what is deemed as lawful for you and abstaining from what is forbidden for you and obeying all the obligations of the Shari’at, having respect, honour and acceptance for the Hujjatullaah.
SSayedna Qadhi al-Nu'man asked about further intricacies on the same topic to which Imaam Mu’izz (as) gave a non-verbal response of a closed smile and said, ‘O Nu’maan, always remember that whoever gains and acquires the knowledge from Allaah and his Rasool, Wasi, Imaam or Da’i, can only be termed as an ‘intellectual’. Because by learning from them, he will get the true knowledge of Allaah, His Deen and Shari’at. Whoever turns his face towards others for seeking knowledge who are not considered as the Hujjat of Allaah on this earth is ignorant and will indeed deviate from Siraat al-Mustaqeem.' Those people who claim themselves to be “ar-raasekhoona fil ‘ilm” or “ahl uz-zikr” are the Tawaghit(Idols) and Allaah has descended Curse on them. No one but RasoolAllah(saws), Mawlana ali (as) and the succession of A'immat al-Tahereen (as) from his progeny or theDu'a'a''t al-Akrameen who are the representatives of the Imaam uz-Zamaan (as) can be called as ‘ar-raasekhoona fil ‘ilm” or “ahl uz-zikr”. Indeed we can only reach to Allaah through His Hujjat on this earth. One who grasps this main trunk of the divine succession of Ambiyaa, Awsiyaa, A’immat and Du’aat will never deviate from the Ilaahi path of najaat and rahma. Undoubtedly he will be the most intellectual one.
Imaam Mu’izz (as) then continued saying that, ‘O Nu’maan, there are many people in this World who consider Haraam (forbidden) as Halaal (lawful) and vice versa. Indeed, they have never understood Allaah, the Qur’an and its interpretation.' ‘O Nu’maan, don’t you remember what Rasoolullaah (saws) said during his lifetime? He has said, ‘After me, many Ahaadeeth, Akhbaar and Riwaayat will be said about me which will ‘unusually’ be related and associated with me filled with the filth of falsehood.’ Hence if you come across such thing, put it parallel to the Qur’an. If you find it in accordance with it, then consider that it is being said by me and if you find it in contradiction with Qur’an, then consider that it is not from me.’ Each Hadeeth of Rasoolullaah (saws) runs parallel in its meaning and interpretation with the verses of the Qur’an. How can Rasoolullaah (saws) say such thing which contradicts the Qur’an? Alas! After the death of Rasoolullaah (saws), his Ahaadeeth were manipulated and doctored for the personal gain by the so called religious leaders (johalaa). The only source of the pure and original teachings of, both, Qur’an and Ahaadeeth of Rasoolullaah (saws) remained with Ameer ul-Mumineen Mawlana Ali (as) and A’immat-al-Tahereen (as) after him.
(P.S to Zabarah:im sorry your imamate runs contradicarary to the Qu'ran,so we must consider any hadith saying about election to be Fake!)
October 28, 2010 8:01 AM
Zabarah said...
Brother Ali,
I have not used Bias information I got from other sects to refute your ideals. it is just wrong and unscholarly! You say that zaidies are more than one sect? is that from a zaidy source?
you give me names of people who were companions of Imam Zaid and fought with him. but if you knew anything about zaidiah you would understand that zaidies follow ahlulbayt. they follow Imams of ahlulbayt so for Jarud or anyother companion to lead a sect is odd and contrary to our beliefs.
All of these companions are not Imams, are not mujtahids, and are not marjaaas!
we follow ahlul bayt we follow Imam zaid, we follow alnafs alzakyah we follow alnafs alradia, we follow alfakhee, and many more. We follow ahlulbayt.
if you read arabic there is a very nice study on the truth about these lies. You can check it out in this link
http://www.al-majalis.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12658&sid=438c595e613bf88863502abd2a23dc61
Brother I have no time for me keep going in a circle in this matter.
All your evidence is weak. and you have given no proof that allah has scripturally given the appointment of your Imams. please understand that I cant keep arguing what might be. for myself I prefer to deal with what is. what is in the Quran. what is in the hadith that is valid without doubt.
Thank you brother for your time and may allah enlighten us all with the truth. Amen.
October 28, 2010 8:47 PM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
You claimed:
Here the prophet says that Imam Zaid has choosen the right path and this path lead to Jannah.
Then he continues that Imam Zaid and his COMPANIONS. Who has COMPANIONS? An Imam has companions a prophet has companions. Companions follow on the foot steps of their Imam and leader. in this case Imam Zaid. and what Imam Zaid and those who follow him will go to jannah stepping on the necks of the people.'''
Actually,a Imam has ''Followers''(mamouneen),and even a normal person has companions.Even Jannah(paradise) and Jahannam(hell) have companions(as7ab Al-Jannah/As7ab An-nar)Companions just means anyone who you are accompianed by!Even Yusuf had Companions of the Prison,they were not his Followwers were they?
The Fact is You are giving Bias Interpretation ,to fit the Beleifs of your own Math-hab!!
if i were to bring this hadith to a Non-Muslim,or even a non-zaydi would they derive imamate from this?
This is based on Conjecture
And allah Says:بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
وَمَا لَهُم بِهِ مِنْ عِلْمٍ إِن يَتَّبِعُونَ إِلَّا الظَّنَّ وَإِنَّ الظَّنَّ لَا يُغْنِي مِنَ الْحَقِّ شَيْئًا (53:28)
(Interpretation of the Verse)
53:28 (Y. Ali) But they have no knowledge therein. They follow nothing but Conjecture; and Conjecture avails nothing against Truth.
YOU SAID:
Everybody at the time of imam zaid know of his knowledge and his uniqueness at the time. they even called him friend of the Quran.
''Imam Albagir and Imam Jafer Alsadeg Also Attest to that and tell people to follow him.
Everyone knows Imam Zaid Called for his Imam. He was Imam of knowledge and Jehad.
''
Brother,Whle Zayd Ibn Ali was a Freind of the Qu'ran,Imam Jafar al-Sadiq was the Qu'ran!
The Fact is Zaydis have no Proof for the Imamate of their Imams even from their own Hadiths!if the Messenger of allah(SWS)Willed to mention it,he would of mentioend it!
Secondly i mentioned the appointment of al-Baqir from the Da'a'im al-Islam,But the Blog Automaticly Removed my Comment!
You Said:
''
Allah make us from the companions of Imam Zaid. Amen.
''
Ameeeeeeeeeeeeen
October 29, 2010 6:49 AM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
Secondly,if you are here to convince me of Zayd's Imamate,that is a Waiste of time on your Part,if you are hear to share each others views like i am,then we can continue!
secondly,i said that the imams were mentioned to Ali,but we have been tested by allah to follow the imams wich were appointed by teh previous,and the fact is all such knowledge was given to Ali,that does not mean we have it.
you then ask me to bring attributtes of a imam from the qu'ran,then i did:Nass,Ismah and Ilm!
no election or choice of men''and you will never find a change in the Sunnah of allah''
its quite simple!
now i am hear to compare zaydi beleifs with Isma'ili beelifs,and not to putr forward a refutation of each others sects.
you yurself started of the post stating clearly you want to refute our sect.now that has failed you,and you call it ''going in circles'',what si your intention?Dialogue or gathwering a convert?
to be honest i read all the Zaydi books on this website,and found their answers to 12ers Simpleton.i mean sometimes you see something and thnk:How did you come up with that?
now akhi,i am hungry for knowledge,plz answer my questions especially regarding The 3 Shahadas and why you took it out :)
October 29, 2010 6:56 AM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
Also,As Brother Devin pointed out the Zaydis have abandoned many of the Practices of Ahl Ul-Bayt(a.s),for Example 3 Shahada's
unfortenatly my computer cannot produce the arabic letetrs right now so i will reference you to my own Video:
True Adhan-Ali is The Trustee of allah علياً ولي الل http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZAhxhaPOcg
it was abu Bakr and Umar that took this shahda out of the Testimony in Prayer ,ansd even the sunni Muhadiths like Ibn hajar Al-Athqalani Admit to this!
and it surprises me how you took ut the Matam For the Master of Martyrs (a.s)aswell
(what goes on with those 12ers in iraq and iran is recently started by Muhammad Baqir Majlisi and has no basis in the sunnahy of Ahl Ul-Bayt(a.s)(i.e hitting yourselves with swords and dressing up as karbala martyrs)
but beating of the chest and Riwayaat is based on Sunnah of Ahl ul-Bayt(a.s),Uwais Al-Qarni had broken all his Teeth because at the battle f Uhud the Messenger of allah-Upon him Be Peace-had had his two Front teeth Broken by the meccan!
uwais Al-Qarni(R.A)Said to Umar :i was in Yemen ,and i had heard the prophet ahd his teeth broken,and you were with the prophet and you did not even shed tear!
on Hearing the News of the Action of Uwais Al-Qarni(R.A)the prophet said of him:''Surely Uwais is our Beloved Freind''
secondly look in Du'a Thanamayn al-Quraish and you see Ali curses Abu bakr and Umar(upon them be Curses of allah and the angels)and he calls them the ''thanamayn Al-Quraish''í.e. the 2 idols of quraish
http://www.duas.org/alaviya/dua-120.htm ''Saname Quraish''
but is it True you consider their rule Legitimate?
did not the lady of the Worlds send her Condemnation upon these Tawaghit?
and he attacked the Daughter of the Prophet ,and killed her son Muhsin.
Soem of the References to this Report Are :
Tareekh Abul Fida Volume 1 page 156 Dhikr bayya Abu Bakr History of al-Tabari, Volume 9 page 187al-Istiab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr Volume 1 page 246 Dhikr Abdullah in Abi QuhafaSharh ibn al Hadeed Volume 1 page 157Al Mihal wa al Nihal Volume 1 page 77, Dhikr NizameeyaMuruj adh-Dhahab by Abd al-Hasan Ali ibn al-Husayn al Masudi Volume 3 page 198Izalat ul Khifa by Muhaddith Shah Waliyullah Dehlavi Volume 2 page 226
(All the narrators are authentic as they are the narrators of Sahih Bukhari & Sahih Muslim. Muhammad bin Bashir: Imam Al-Dhahabi said: ‘Thabt’ (Al-Kaashif, v2 p159), Imam Ibn Hajar Asqalani said: ‘Thiqa’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v2 p58). Ubaidllah bin Umar: Al-Dhahabi said: ‘Thabt’ (Al-Kaashif, v1 p685), Ibn Hajar Asqalani said: ‘Thiqa Thabt’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v1 p637). Zaid bin Aslam: Al-Dhahabi said: ‘Hujja’ (Siar alam alnubala, v5 p316), Imam Ibn Hajar Asqalani said: ‘Thiqa’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v1 p326). Aslam al-Qurashi (the slave of Umar): Al-Dhahabi said: 'Faqih, Imam' (Siar alam alnubala, v4 p98), Ibn Hajar Asqalani said: ‘Thiqa’ (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v1 p88). )
(NOTE :to ProAhlulbayt1,there is no mention of any sayf Al-Tamimi!)
if you dont know the positon of this Book,it is earlier then bukhari,and dates from 1st Century After Hijra.
http://www.livingislam.org/n/ias_e.html
October 29, 2010 8:05 AM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
aswell as Musnaf of Imam Ibn Abi Shebah, Volume 7 page 432 Tradition 37045
Narrated Muhammad bin Bashir from Ubaidllah bin Umar from Zaid bin Aslam that his father Aslam said: ‘When the homage (baya) went to Abu Bakr after the Messenger of Allah, Ali and Zubair were entering into the house of Fatima to consult her and revise their issue, so when Umar came to know about that, he went to Fatima and said : ‘Oh daughter of Messenger of Allah, no one is dearest to us more than your father and no one dearest to us after your father than you, I swear by Allah, if these people gathered in your house then nothing will prevent me from giving order to burn the house and those who are inside.’
So when Umar left, they (Ali and Zubair) came , so she (Fatima) said to them: ‘Do you know that Umar came here and swear by Allah to burn the house if you gather here, I swear by God that he (Umar) will execute his oath, so please leave wisely and take a decision and don't gather here again.’ So they left her and didn't gather there till they give baya to Abu Bakr.”
October 29, 2010 8:07 AM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
Secondly,There is a Well-known hadith where Ali ibn Husayn Said About Salman:
وَاللٌّهِ لَوْ عَلِمَ أَبُو ذَرّ مَا فِي قَلْبِ سَلْمَان لَقَتَلَهُ.
“I swear by Allāh, if Abū Dharr knew what was in the heart of Salmān, he would have killed him.”
(Bihar Al-Anwar v. 22, pg. 343)
Muhammad Ibn Ali Narrates:دَخَلَ أَبُو ذَرٍّ عَلَى سَلْمَانَ وَهُوَ يَطْبَخُ قِدْراً لَهُ، فَبَيْنَا هُمَا يَتَحَادَثَانِ إِذَا انْكَبَّتِ الْقِدْرُ عَلَى وَجْهِهَا عَلَى الأَرْضِ، فَلَمْ يَسْقُطْ مِنْ مَرَقِهَا وَلاَ مِنْ وَدَكِهَا شَيْءٌ، فَعَجِبَ مِنْ ذٌلِكَ أَبُو ذَرٍّ عَجَباً شَدِيداً، وَأَخَذَ سَلْمَانُ الْقِدْرَ فَوَضَعَهَا عَلَى حَالِهَا الأَوَّلِ عَلَى النَّارِ ثَانِيَةً، وَأَقْبَلاَ يَتَحَدَّثَانِ فَبَيْنَمَا هُمَا يَتَحَدَّثَانِ إِذَا انْكَبَّتِ الْقِدْرُ عَلَى وَجْهِهَا فَلَمْ يَسْقُطْ مِنْهَا شَيْءٌ مِنْ مَرَقِهَا وَلاَ مِنْ وَدَكِهَا، قَالَ فَخَرَجَ أَبُو ذَرٍّ وَهُوَ مَذْعُورٌ مِنْ عِنْدِ سَلْمَانَ، فَبَيْنَمَا هُوَ مُتَفَكِّرٌ إِذْ لَقِيَ أَمِيرَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ (ع) عَلَى الْبَابِ، فَلَمَّا أَنْ بَصُرَ بهِ أَمِيرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ (ع) قَالَ لَهُ: يَا بَا ذَرٍّ! مَا الَّذِي أَخْرَجَكَ وَمَا الَّذِي ذَعَرَكَ؟ فَقَالَ لَهُ أَبُو ذَرٍّ: يَا أَمِيرَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ! رَأَيْتُ سَلْمَانَ صَنَعَ كَذَا وَكَذَا، فَعَجِبْتُ مِنْ ذٌلِكَ. فَقَالَ أَمِيرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ(ع): يَا أبَا ذَرٍّ! إِنَّ سَلْمَانَ لَوْ حَدَّثَكَ بِمَا يَعْلَمُ لَقُلْتَ رَحِمَ اللَّهُ قَاتِلَ سَلْمَانَ!
Abū Dharr once came to Salmān while he was cooking in a cooking pot; while they were conversing with each other, the cooking pot overturned and fell down on the ground, but not a drop of its curry or cooking fat fell down; Abū Dharr was highly amazed at seeing this; Salmān picked up the cooking pot and placed it on the fire the second time, and they began conversing once again; while they were talking to each other, the pot overturned again, and nothing of the curry or cooking fat spilled, Abu Dharr then left Salmān in the state of great astonishment , and while he was deep in thought, he suddenly met Amīr al-Mu’minīn (as) at the door. When the Imām (as) saw Abū Dharr’s state of amazement, he said to him: O Abā Dharr, what made you leave the presence of Salmān? And what made you frightened? Abū Dharr said to the Imām (as): O Amīr al-Mu’minīn, I saw Salmān doing such and such a thing, and I was amazed by that. Thereupon Amīr al-Mu’minīn (as) said to him: O Abā Dharr, If Salmān were to tell you what he knows, you would have said: May Allāh have mercy on the killer of Salmān.”
(Bahj al-Sabāghah Fī Sharhi Nahj al-Balāghah, v. 3, pg. 402)
and We All know what Muhamamd ibn Ali(a.s)Said of Him:لا تَقُولُوا سَلْمَانَ الْفَارِسِيَّ، وَلَكِنْ قُولُوا سَلْمَانَ الْمُحَمَّدِيَّ. ذَاكَ رَجُلٌ مِنَّا أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ.
“Do not say Salmān al-Farsī, but say Salmān al-Muhammadī, for he is a man from us, the Ahlu’l Bayt (as).”
(Bihār al-Anwār, v. 22, pg. 349)
this was because Salman(a.s)Knew what was the real nature of Ali ibn Abi Talib,that even if Abui dharr knew,he would kill him!
October 29, 2010 8:09 AM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
Also akhi,didnt Prove that your imams were not Ahl Ul-Bayt but Sadaat?and that the Ahl Ul-Bayt are Purified in all times since the words Allah uses are:
' إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ لِيُذْهِبَ عَنْكُمُ الرِّجْسَ أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ وَيُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِيرا ''
notice the Continouis verbs ''وَيُطَهِّرَكُمْ ''and '' يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ''i..e Yutahiakum and Innama YuridAllah are continouis opposed to Qad Rad Allah and Qad Tathirakum!
meaning:if a person is truly from this Ahl ul-byt they wil be always totally purified!
secondly i can show this verse:
اأَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا إِذَا نُودِي لِلصَّلاَةِ مِنْ يَوْمِ الْجُمُعَةِ فَاسْعَوْا إِلَى ذِكْرِ اللَّهِ وَذَرُوا الْبَيْعَ ذَلِكُمْ خَيْر ٌ لَكُمْ إِنْ كُنتُمْ تَعْلَمُونَ
i.e. it tells the believers to come To Jumu'ah ,however i can claim that it refers t the beleivers at the time of the Revelation and nt All times,therefore we as muslims,today are not Obliged to perform Friday prayers!
notice:اأَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا''
meaning allah is calling out to those who believe at that specific point,but we will not claim these verses only refer to the belevers of this time will we?
the fact is that you borrowed this from sunni islam ,just like the majority of your doctrines.
and i dont speak arabic well-enough to engage in debates,i can read articles,and understand them somewhat,i can also understand the quran,but my arabic is very Primary :)
but insha'Allah when i get older i will engage in dialogue with my Zaydi brethren .
looking forward to your answers.
and thank you for your time
-ali
October 29, 2010 8:12 AM
Ali said...
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
اللهم صل على محمد وآل محمد
also Brother,i am not Trying to ''refute''your doctrines.i am trying to gain viewpoint on how zaydis claim their relgion is The right path of islam,as you know there will be 73 sects,and i am searching wich one is right.
i am defending my doctrines,of course,just as you defend yours.but we should not act like their is enmity between us.The Composing odf Differences within Religion is a major sin,and one Waliyallah said that to unite the muslims is better then 1000 Prayers.
but we should also not Neglect Scholarly research provided it is ina respectable manner!
we are truth seekers,and keeping this in mind we should always be open to dialogue!
also ,you sais you could bring up stuff in our hsityr,lets discuss .
i am open to discussing this and ending all lies agianst our Imams(a.s)
The Fatimids never harmed anybody with out a just Cause.many things were fabricated about them,just as they fabricated many things About Ameer al-Mumineen(a.s).
the Mamluk dysnasty had a Writer known as al-maqrizi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Maqrizi
he came hundreds of eyars after the fatimids
and he was Anti-Fatimid,the Abbassids also had manyn propoganda against the ftimids.
the main propoganda is Al-Hakim Bi AmrAllah(الحاكم بأمر الله)(alayhi al-salam)and his ''alleged insanity''
Al-Hakim did order the jews to wear certain things,because they were corrupting the Economy,and after a Few years the economy went up again,and people could eat
he uplifted the Restrictions on Ahl Ul-Kitab
the Destruction of The holy church of the Sepulchre was because it was being used as a Spy Basin.
the Prophet also Destroyed one Masjid known as
''Masjid Al-Diraar''Because the Hypocrites were using it as a base to attack islam!
also he did not force Women to Wear Hijab,and this angered alot of people.
so they said he was an insane and that he commited incest with his daughter!
Secondly,the other argument is their Alleged involvement with the Crusaders.
however Imam Al-Amir Bi Ahkam Allah(الآمر بأحكام الله)(a.s)did not order to meet the crusaders,it was al-Afdhal( لأفضل ) a sunni,and he thought they were Byzantines,as the Fatimids and Byzantines had a Alliance against the Abbassids.
they found this out and Changed their stance ,the Crusaders attacked jerusalem in a Surprise battle of Asqalan and even al-afdhal (remember a Sunni!)who was a wenemy of the Imams((a.s)had tried to stop them.
Al-Afdhal was nicknamed Jalal al-Islam ("glory of Islam") and Nasir al-Din ("Helper of religion") by sunnis and Ibn al-Qalansi a sunni historian praised him.and he was Resented by the Isma'ili Imams of Both Nizari and Tayyibi.
in Fact after imam mustansir's Death Al-Afdal had taken power and the imams were almost held hostage!
unfortenalty since Salahedin burned the Fatimid library we have little infrmation n ther history
we do have the ''fatimid chronicles''at al-azhar
Shiachat /forum/index.php?/...fatimid-chronicles/ -
wich show many false things in oru hstory.and show the truth about many falsifications of sunni Scholars!
Secondly you should see this :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0jtodEcQXc
''Fatimids Glory of Arab Shi'a.mp4 ''and most people agree with us.
so in short even if you searched the pages of history for 1 billion years you would not find a single sin commited by our imams ,unless it was fabricated and can be easily refuted.
October 29, 2010 10:33 AM
Ali said...
also our imams Al-Hakim,al-Musta'ali,and al-Amir Were Martyrs!
allah has Said in his Qu'ran :
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
يُرِيدُونَ أَن يُطْفِؤُواْ نُورَ اللّهِ بِأَفْوَاهِهِمْ وَيَأْبَى اللّهُ إِلاَّ أَن يُتِمَّ نُورَهُ وَلَوْ كَرِهَ الْكَافِرُونَ
9:32 (Picktall) Fain would they put out the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah disdaineth (aught) save that He shall perfect His light, however much the disbelievers are averse
بـسـم الله الـرحمن الرحيم
يُرِيدُونَ لِيُطْفِؤُوا نُورَ اللَّهِ بِأَفْوَاهِهِمْ وَاللَّهُ مُتِمُّ نُورِهِ وَلَوْ كَرِهَ الْكَافِرُونَ
61:8 (Picktall) Fain would they put out the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah will perfect His light however much the disbelievers are averse. -
October 29, 2010 10:34 AM
Ali said...
i can also show you the Ahl ul-Bayt considered themselves free from all sins by a speech given by Imam Hassan(a.s):
أنا من أهل البيت الذين أذهب الله عنهم الرجس وطهرهم تطهيرا
I am from that Ahl al-Bayt from whom Allah KEPT away ALL blemishes and PURIFIED absolutely.
and the words of al-hasan;
يا أهل العراق اتقوا الله فينا ، فإنا
أمراؤكم وضيفانكم ، ونحن أهل البيت الذي قال الله عزّ وجل : ﴿ إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ اللهُ لِيُذْهِبَ عَنْكُمُ الرِّجْسَ أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ وَيُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِيراً ﴾
O people of Iraq! Fear Allah with regards to us, for we (Ahl al-Bayt) are your (divinely appointed) rulers. We are the “Ahl al-Bayt”, about whom Allah the Majestic and Glorious, said << Allah only wishes to keep away from you all blemishes (al-rijz), O Ahl al-Bayt, and to purify you absolutely.
(Majma’ al-Zawaid, vol. 9, p. 172 )
October 29, 2010 2:19 PM
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